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I took the MBTI in my early twenties, then forgot about it. I got into the much more scientific big-5 to understand different types of personalities, and in ord

I took the MBTI in my early twenties, then forgot about it. I got into the much more scientific big-5 to understand different types of personalities, and in order to flesh out the possible ranges of behaviors in my mind. Then 10 years later I find myself going back to the MBTI. Why? Because I now understand it as a gateway to Jung ideas, which I find helpful during my current period of professional questionning. Acording to what I understand, the original idea is that our minds all share basic different functions : thinking, feeling, sensing, intuition, each coming into an introverted or extraverted way. Depending on your lifepath, your self concept (ego) will ''cling'' to certain functions because of perceived talent, events, etc. Then, you will start to realize that you are weaker than what social norms dictate about using some other functions. You might also realize that you judge other for using their functions in an ''inferior'' way, and that some of yours are present but less agile than your favorites. That the last ones are subcounscious and silencious because using them (or seeing other using them) will trigger repressed emotions. Finally, that developping a healthy ego, containing workable 'stack' of cohesive functions which both fits your aspirations and society's expectation is hard. And that maybe one way, your mind will be fluid and adjust itself according to the situation.

leblancfg 6y ago
jplr9822, I just wanted to say thanks for this great reply, and that I would thoroughly enjoy reading an expanded version of this in long form. Cheers
- jplr8922 6y ago
  Gee I'm far from being a specialist. Best gateway I found to MBTI as a tool for personal development (and not self masturbation) is the personality hacker podcast (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5S23Z7_qa4sRnfW80Xd6Ag https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5S23Z7_qa4sRnfW80Xd6Ag). Keep in mind that the MBTI is not a model to forecast your perfect job / match, simply a tool for self reflexion. You could also read the original book by Jung : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types. As the article explains, the goal is to understand the various complexes that an individual will develop if he becomes over-reliant to some functions and repress their opposite in their subcouscious. Think about an overly-logical nerd unable to take action, a social butterfly with no introspection, or a tyranical boss with an substance-based stress management technique. Pay special attention to those you judge.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
pdamoc 6y ago
> I now understand it as a gateway to Jung ideas, which I find helpful during my current period of professional questionning. Jung's ideas are quite attractive, I'll give you that. We all love a good story, especially if feels so full of meaning. That being said, I would point out that there are stories and good research that might be a lot more helpful. I would suggest: Chris Argyris work on management, especially his ideas around defensive-reasoning vs productive-reasoning. Toyota Kata work by Mike Rother might also be helpful. This is about switching to an evidence backed mode of thinking (scientific thinking). Next would be Robert Kegan's work on constructive developmental framework and immunity to change. His work presents both a vision about human development and the obstacles we have in the way. And finally, Carol Dweck's recent work on the foundation of personality. Here is a summary of that work.[1] It might be useful to understand how your own BEATs got entangled in your identity, which of them are useful, which are sabotaging you. [1] http://www.progressfocused.com/2017/11/carol-dwecks-new-theory-on-foundations.html http://www.progressfocused.com/2017/11/carol-dwecks-new-theo... Her
- jplr8922 6y ago
  Hi pdamoc! First of all I want to thank you for sharing modern authors. I was aware of Carol Dweck's older theories and Toyota management model. I do plan to learn from your suggestions. Have they been helpful in your career? One of the fist thing I've noticed after I started Zen meditation training 5 years ago was that I had recurrent daydreams about killing my bosses. I switched position 3 times until I found myself in a toxic startup where I've burned out. I met a psycologist specialized in work related issues (very good with modern models) and it was helpful. I've learned how to manage my anxiety and to trust my self better. I'm not certain that I would qualify Jung's ideas as 'attractive'. I understand what you mean by 'a good story', but my take on his work is that its a pre-scientific tool to look deeply into yourself. If it's not scary, your are not using it right. (A bit like zen meditation). Right now I work as an IT consultant in a byzantine public organisation where failure is normalized or hidden. Knowing that I will not spend my life there makes it easy to cope with the day to day absurdity, and cashing that paycheck is nice during COVID. But the thing is, I dont care about money. According to FIRE metrics, I save over 50% of my income after tax. I have no kids and no responsabilities beyond myself. Instead of bitching about corporate-employee life, I think I should move out of it. Why not go back to school and do a Phd (already Msc), start or join a meaningful startup? Also recently I made a list of professional achievements which make me proud and turned it into a presentation letter, and found potential employers based on that letter. I have an interview in another industry next week. I have no problem with the scientific method. The thing is, your own life cannot be a randomized controlled trial. And unfortunalty, if you are suffering from strong emotional biases (like anxiety), trying to use a new model might not work because your will be biased in its usage. Learning from science is not sufficient to lead a meaningful life. Good relationships will also help you alot in your self reflexion challenges. Lastly, I think that learning to use your intuition is probably the best tool you have to work against a disfunctional self model, since by nature intuition is non-verbal and anti-model in the first place.

leblancfg 6y ago

jplr9822, I just wanted to say thanks for this great reply, and that I would thoroughly enjoy reading an expanded version of this in long form. Cheers

jplr8922 6y ago
Gee I'm far from being a specialist. Best gateway I found to MBTI as a tool for personal development (and not self masturbation) is the personality hacker podcast (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5S23Z7_qa4sRnfW80Xd6Ag https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5S23Z7_qa4sRnfW80Xd6Ag). Keep in mind that the MBTI is not a model to forecast your perfect job / match, simply a tool for self reflexion. You could also read the original book by Jung : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_Types. As the article explains, the goal is to understand the various complexes that an individual will develop if he becomes over-reliant to some functions and repress their opposite in their subcouscious. Think about an overly-logical nerd unable to take action, a social butterfly with no introspection, or a tyranical boss with an substance-based stress management technique. Pay special attention to those you judge.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

pdamoc 6y ago

> I now understand it as a gateway to Jung ideas, which I find helpful during my current period of professional questionning. Jung's ideas are quite attractive, I'll give you that. We all love a good story, especially if feels so full of meaning. That being said, I would point out that there are stories and good research that might be a lot more helpful. I would suggest: Chris Argyris work on management, especially his ideas around defensive-reasoning vs productive-reasoning. Toyota Kata work by Mike Rother might also be helpful. This is about switching to an evidence backed mode of thinking (scientific thinking). Next would be Robert Kegan's work on constructive developmental framework and immunity to change. His work presents both a vision about human development and the obstacles we have in the way. And finally, Carol Dweck's recent work on the foundation of personality. Here is a summary of that work.[1] It might be useful to understand how your own BEATs got entangled in your identity, which of them are useful, which are sabotaging you. [1] http://www.progressfocused.com/2017/11/carol-dwecks-new-theory-on-foundations.html http://www.progressfocused.com/2017/11/carol-dwecks-new-theo... Her

jplr8922 6y ago
Hi pdamoc! First of all I want to thank you for sharing modern authors. I was aware of Carol Dweck's older theories and Toyota management model. I do plan to learn from your suggestions. Have they been helpful in your career? One of the fist thing I've noticed after I started Zen meditation training 5 years ago was that I had recurrent daydreams about killing my bosses. I switched position 3 times until I found myself in a toxic startup where I've burned out. I met a psycologist specialized in work related issues (very good with modern models) and it was helpful. I've learned how to manage my anxiety and to trust my self better. I'm not certain that I would qualify Jung's ideas as 'attractive'. I understand what you mean by 'a good story', but my take on his work is that its a pre-scientific tool to look deeply into yourself. If it's not scary, your are not using it right. (A bit like zen meditation). Right now I work as an IT consultant in a byzantine public organisation where failure is normalized or hidden. Knowing that I will not spend my life there makes it easy to cope with the day to day absurdity, and cashing that paycheck is nice during COVID. But the thing is, I dont care about money. According to FIRE metrics, I save over 50% of my income after tax. I have no kids and no responsabilities beyond myself. Instead of bitching about corporate-employee life, I think I should move out of it. Why not go back to school and do a Phd (already Msc), start or join a meaningful startup? Also recently I made a list of professional achievements which make me proud and turned it into a presentation letter, and found potential employers based on that letter. I have an interview in another industry next week. I have no problem with the scientific method. The thing is, your own life cannot be a randomized controlled trial. And unfortunalty, if you are suffering from strong emotional biases (like anxiety), trying to use a new model might not work because your will be biased in its usage. Learning from science is not sufficient to lead a meaningful life. Good relationships will also help you alot in your self reflexion challenges. Lastly, I think that learning to use your intuition is probably the best tool you have to work against a disfunctional self model, since by nature intuition is non-verbal and anti-model in the first place.