3 ms·

ok, as i'm currently starting my business in austria (that's in europe) i want to add my 2c. the biggest obstacle is that the government won't go out of your w

by franze 15y ago

ok, as i'm currently starting my business in austria (that's in europe) i want to add my 2c. the biggest obstacle is that the government won't go out of your way. 1. i could start my company now 2. but it would be stupid, as i would miss out on the "unternehmensgründerförderung" (start up support) 3. for getting "unternehmensgründerförderung" you have to attend a sh#tload of courses (for about 2 months) which tell you nothing about starting a business, but a lot of "what you have to do so that you don't get into trouble with the government later" 3.1. and they tell you a sh#tload of things about things you have to do to get a 'unternehmensgründungs' grant for your business 3.2. during that period your business is forbidden to earn money 4. as soon as you start your startup you have at least half a month of work outlined on what you now have to do to please your government 5. even if your company would just exists for 1 minute, you will get herrases by the government and insurance companies for the next 3 years. oh, and every time the government discusses that fact that there are not enough new companies, they talk about another 'development program' (a.k.a. grant) which you then get educated about, if you want to or not. sometimes i think i'm becoming an anarchist, an entrepreneur-anarchist.

dualogy 15y ago
Yes you should, and it's not hard. You start by refusing to take any more government money, then proceed to the advanced stage where you also refuse to pay them any. Involves a lot of travel, but who wouldn't love that? Entrepreneur-anarchists certainly do ;)
zenspunk 15y ago
So, Europe needs less regulation on the low-end of town (small businesses) to increase international competitiveness, and the US needs more regulation on the high-end of town (big business) to decrease corruption and prevent anti-competitive practices. Would it be fair to say that?
- marknutter 15y ago
  Small businesses decrease corruption and anti-competitive practices in large businesses.
dpapathanasiou 15y ago
Well, Austria is a paradise compared to a place like Greece (which, unlike Germany, could stand for a bit of the cultural change espoused by the WSJ article): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/business/30greek.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/business/30greek.html
cheez 15y ago
I think once you become an independent entrepreneur, you have no choice but to at least go libertarian. By independent, I mean your income is not derived from connections to the state.
FrojoS 15y ago
So who are your co-founders? Are there any? To me, the problem is finding co-founders not bureaucracy. As others have pointed out, you don't need to get the "Gründerzuschuss". None of the German founders, I know, says that bureaucracy is the biggest problem. Sure they complain and they might hire more if they could fire more. But the real problem, as the article says, is culture. Germany was once the country of the "Gründerzeit". But thats more than a century ago. Indeed, most of the big companies in Europe are way older than the republics they are based at. I'm currently graduating from one of the top tier [1] engineering schools in Germany. None of my classmates that I'm friends with is really interested in startups. They are all going for Big Car or a Doctorate. And those guys are already more ventures than average. [1] Not, that this says a lot. University quality is still way more equally distributed than in the US. But at least, there is some competition now. Not just over research grants but also about talented students. Ironically, my university is pushing entrepreneurship a lot. They even changed their slogan to "The Entrepreneurial University" http://portal.mytum.de/welcome/ http://portal.mytum.de/welcome/
- T-zex 15y ago
  He's starting a business in Austria not Germany.
  - FrojoS 15y ago
    Thanks, I'm aware of that. But where is the difference? I don't know what of my answer would not apply to Austria. But I'm happy to learn.
prpon 15y ago
An unrelated question. "unternehmensgründerförderung" is that a real word or you just made it up? I would make up such words when I am mad at something and can't express my frustation in real words :)
- bauchidgw 15y ago
  oh, it's real. and it's just one part of the overall "unternehmensgruenderprogramm"

by franze 15y ago

dualogy 15y ago

Yes you should, and it's not hard. You start by refusing to take any more government money, then proceed to the advanced stage where you also refuse to pay them any. Involves a lot of travel, but who wouldn't love that? Entrepreneur-anarchists certainly do ;)

zenspunk 15y ago

So, Europe needs less regulation on the low-end of town (small businesses) to increase international competitiveness, and the US needs more regulation on the high-end of town (big business) to decrease corruption and prevent anti-competitive practices. Would it be fair to say that?

marknutter 15y ago
Small businesses decrease corruption and anti-competitive practices in large businesses.

dpapathanasiou 15y ago

Well, Austria is a paradise compared to a place like Greece (which, unlike Germany, could stand for a bit of the cultural change espoused by the WSJ article): http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/business/30greek.html http://www.nytimes.com/2011/01/30/business/30greek.html

cheez 15y ago

I think once you become an independent entrepreneur, you have no choice but to at least go libertarian. By independent, I mean your income is not derived from connections to the state.

FrojoS 15y ago

So who are your co-founders? Are there any? To me, the problem is finding co-founders not bureaucracy. As others have pointed out, you don't need to get the "Gründerzuschuss". None of the German founders, I know, says that bureaucracy is the biggest problem. Sure they complain and they might hire more if they could fire more. But the real problem, as the article says, is culture. Germany was once the country of the "Gründerzeit". But thats more than a century ago. Indeed, most of the big companies in Europe are way older than the republics they are based at. I'm currently graduating from one of the top tier [1] engineering schools in Germany. None of my classmates that I'm friends with is really interested in startups. They are all going for Big Car or a Doctorate. And those guys are already more ventures than average. [1] Not, that this says a lot. University quality is still way more equally distributed than in the US. But at least, there is some competition now. Not just over research grants but also about talented students. Ironically, my university is pushing entrepreneurship a lot. They even changed their slogan to "The Entrepreneurial University" http://portal.mytum.de/welcome/ http://portal.mytum.de/welcome/

T-zex 15y ago
He's starting a business in Austria not Germany.
- FrojoS 15y ago
  Thanks, I'm aware of that. But where is the difference? I don't know what of my answer would not apply to Austria. But I'm happy to learn.

prpon 15y ago

An unrelated question. "unternehmensgründerförderung" is that a real word or you just made it up? I would make up such words when I am mad at something and can't express my frustation in real words :)

bauchidgw 15y ago
oh, it's real. and it's just one part of the overall "unternehmensgruenderprogramm"