5 ms·

This is a classic example of "if only more people would be like us, the world would be better!". Sure enough, the experts are all entrepreneurs and investors.

by ovi256 15y ago

This is a classic example of "if only more people would be like us, the world would be better!". Sure enough, the experts are all entrepreneurs and investors. Well, in this particular case, they may very well be right. But things like this really bother me: "traditional engineering-driven approach to business, with its emphasis on perfection, longevity, pride in ingenuity and culture of deep-thinking put the country at a competitive disadvantage in the fast-moving new economy". Really ? That's all he had to say about what made Germany an economic powerhouse on par only with Japan ? Oh, what we need then are more social media experts, I'm sure, to drive value creation through synergistic customer discovery. I'm pretty sure he's beating on a strawman here. Also, the last piece of candy: 'The so called “poor countries,” such as Brazil, have this hunger. They are going to catch up on us.' And how is that a bad thing ? Good for them.

coliveira 15y ago
Americans don't like to talk about it, but they should better learn how emulate Europe rather than the opposite. The USA is nowadays more similar to Europe than to new developing economies. While Europe hasn't the high growth it once had, they know how to maintain an economy that retains prosperity for most of its people.
- latch 15y ago
  Wait, what? I'm not anti/pro america/europe. I'm also not very good at geography, but are you talking about the same Europe as I think you are? Are you suggesting that Europe, as a whole, is an economic model to follow right now? Or when you say Europe do you really just mean Germany ?
  - JanezStupar 15y ago
    Tongue in cheek - Europe could be defined as federation of countries striving to become like Germany. Like US could be defined as federation of countries striving to become like NewFornia.
    - deleted 15y ago
      [deleted]
- jerf 15y ago
  In the global race to have the worst economy, Europe (as a whole) currently has a significant edge over the US, although the US is certainly running the race with gusto. There's serious talk of having to break the EU up over the economic crisis it is having. The traditional "US should be more like Europe" rhetoric should be packed away in storage for a while, conditions are not ripe for it.
  - danssig 15y ago
    There is talk of breaking up the EU because the bad countries are bankrupting the ones that are doing really well. When everyone notices that the producers and the problem countries are the usual suspects, of course the conclusion is that maybe this agreement wasn't such a good idea after all.
  - jbooth 15y ago
    Most of the European problems right now are problems that the US just plain cannot have -- Greece, Spain and Italy running up huge debts because they have the credibility of the eurozone without any of the responsibility. America's different, we're one country. Those problems aside, we could do a lot worse than modeling europe, way less gas usage, higher health insurance coverage, 2 months of vacation a year. Sounds a lot more stable to me.
    - marknutter 15y ago
      I don't understand how higher health insurance coverage, 2 months of vacation, and less gas usage equates to a healthy economy, or maybe I'm missing something?
      - jbooth 15y ago
        Higher/cheaper/universal healthcare and less gas usage definitely lead to a healthier economy. Ever seen the numbers on how much of your car's sticker price paid for health insurance? If we spent less on the health insurance, we'd be more efficient, right? How much money we shipping straight to Saudi Arabia in gas usage? If we could get the same stuff done on less gas, that'd be more efficient, right? The 2 months of vacation is just a bonus.
- WiseWeasel 15y ago
  When I visit family and friends in the old country, I always find people's attitude depressing. There is a universal sense of dependence on the state, stemming largely from the fact that over 20% of the population is employed directly by the government, but also from a widespread sense of entitlement to welfare and other support. The state is the source of and solution to all of their problems, and this interferes with their willingness to depend on each-other for support. People will much more readily look to the state for the answers to their problems than to themselves or their peers. I can only take such an attitude in small doses before I have to leave and breathe some fresh air of freedom and self-determination back stateside. I appreciate the sense of community and interdependence that comes from the state taking a back seat in people's lives. If we have a problem, then the answer is often to address it ourselves rather than petition the state for a solution. Chances are we're not the only ones to feel that way, and help from our peers will materialize from the bottom up.
  - cheez 15y ago
    In Canada, 27% of the full-time workforce works for the government directly. This doesn't count contractors.
    - icegreentea 15y ago
      30% seems too high. We have ~3.5 million directly employed by all levels of government [1], and a labour force of ~19 million [2] [1] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/GOVT65A-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/GOVT65A-eng.htm [2] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss01a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss01a-eng.htm That's maybe ~15%.
      - cheez 15y ago
        I'm only counting full-time employees. I don't have numbers on full/part-time work of government employees so I'm using the basis that $53K average salary[1] implies that nearly most are full-time, given that the average income overall is about that amount (edit: wow, it's totally not[4]). Some more information. The average hourly wage for full-time employees is $24.72 across the entire population [2]. The same data shows that the average hourly wage for both part-time (25 and older) and full time is $24.89. This is not apples to apples, just giving you some expectation on what you can expect for a professional workforce that works both part-time and full-time. Assuming, then, that full time is 2000 hours (40hrs/week*50weeks), the average hourly wage for part-time and full-time government employees works out to $26.55 [3]. So based on that information, I am comfortable saying that an insignificant number of government employees are part-time or they are excessively overpaid. Further, I am then comfortable saying that 27% of the Canadian full-time workforce works directly for the government. Not good for progress. Edit: updated 100 times to clarify. [1] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm [2] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a-eng.htm [3] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm [4] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm
diego_moita 15y ago
> Also, the last piece of candy: 'The so called “poor countries,” such as Brazil, have this hunger. They are going to catch up on us.' Disclosure: I am Brazilian. They might, but it will take much longer than anyone expects. The truth is that Europe has a lot of advantages when compared to countries like Brazil, India, etc. 1) Working institutions, including the rule of the law. Don't get me started about the ineptitude and incompetence of Brazilian police and courts. 2) A notion of what good governance means, at least outside of Italy and the PIGS. Patronage is so widespread and accepted here that this word doesn't even have a direct translation. 3) Culture and I don't mean classical erudition, but basic literacy. 4) A working credit industry. Only farmers and people with connections in the government can get easy credit in here. For all others the interest rates are a rip-off. Also, few people realize that some of the problems Europe has (decreasing population) are already arriving here; so it is possible that we get old before we get rich.
- swah 15y ago
  But we have the jeitinho brasileiro.

by ovi256 15y ago

coliveira 15y ago

Americans don't like to talk about it, but they should better learn how emulate Europe rather than the opposite. The USA is nowadays more similar to Europe than to new developing economies. While Europe hasn't the high growth it once had, they know how to maintain an economy that retains prosperity for most of its people.

latch 15y ago
Wait, what? I'm not anti/pro america/europe. I'm also not very good at geography, but are you talking about the same Europe as I think you are? Are you suggesting that Europe, as a whole, is an economic model to follow right now? Or when you say Europe do you really just mean Germany ?
- JanezStupar 15y ago
  Tongue in cheek - Europe could be defined as federation of countries striving to become like Germany. Like US could be defined as federation of countries striving to become like NewFornia.
  - deleted 15y ago
    [deleted]
jerf 15y ago
In the global race to have the worst economy, Europe (as a whole) currently has a significant edge over the US, although the US is certainly running the race with gusto. There's serious talk of having to break the EU up over the economic crisis it is having. The traditional "US should be more like Europe" rhetoric should be packed away in storage for a while, conditions are not ripe for it.
- danssig 15y ago
  There is talk of breaking up the EU because the bad countries are bankrupting the ones that are doing really well. When everyone notices that the producers and the problem countries are the usual suspects, of course the conclusion is that maybe this agreement wasn't such a good idea after all.
- jbooth 15y ago
  Most of the European problems right now are problems that the US just plain cannot have -- Greece, Spain and Italy running up huge debts because they have the credibility of the eurozone without any of the responsibility. America's different, we're one country. Those problems aside, we could do a lot worse than modeling europe, way less gas usage, higher health insurance coverage, 2 months of vacation a year. Sounds a lot more stable to me.
  - marknutter 15y ago
    I don't understand how higher health insurance coverage, 2 months of vacation, and less gas usage equates to a healthy economy, or maybe I'm missing something?
    - jbooth 15y ago
      Higher/cheaper/universal healthcare and less gas usage definitely lead to a healthier economy. Ever seen the numbers on how much of your car's sticker price paid for health insurance? If we spent less on the health insurance, we'd be more efficient, right? How much money we shipping straight to Saudi Arabia in gas usage? If we could get the same stuff done on less gas, that'd be more efficient, right? The 2 months of vacation is just a bonus.
WiseWeasel 15y ago
When I visit family and friends in the old country, I always find people's attitude depressing. There is a universal sense of dependence on the state, stemming largely from the fact that over 20% of the population is employed directly by the government, but also from a widespread sense of entitlement to welfare and other support. The state is the source of and solution to all of their problems, and this interferes with their willingness to depend on each-other for support. People will much more readily look to the state for the answers to their problems than to themselves or their peers. I can only take such an attitude in small doses before I have to leave and breathe some fresh air of freedom and self-determination back stateside. I appreciate the sense of community and interdependence that comes from the state taking a back seat in people's lives. If we have a problem, then the answer is often to address it ourselves rather than petition the state for a solution. Chances are we're not the only ones to feel that way, and help from our peers will materialize from the bottom up.
- cheez 15y ago
  In Canada, 27% of the full-time workforce works for the government directly. This doesn't count contractors.
  - icegreentea 15y ago
    30% seems too high. We have ~3.5 million directly employed by all levels of government [1], and a labour force of ~19 million [2] [1] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/GOVT65A-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/GOVT65A-eng.htm [2] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss01a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/lfss01a-eng.htm That's maybe ~15%.
    - cheez 15y ago
      I'm only counting full-time employees. I don't have numbers on full/part-time work of government employees so I'm using the basis that $53K average salary[1] implies that nearly most are full-time, given that the average income overall is about that amount (edit: wow, it's totally not[4]). Some more information. The average hourly wage for full-time employees is $24.72 across the entire population [2]. The same data shows that the average hourly wage for both part-time (25 and older) and full time is $24.89. This is not apples to apples, just giving you some expectation on what you can expect for a professional workforce that works both part-time and full-time. Assuming, then, that full time is 2000 hours (40hrs/week*50weeks), the average hourly wage for part-time and full-time government employees works out to $26.55 [3]. So based on that information, I am comfortable saying that an insignificant number of government employees are part-time or they are excessively overpaid. Further, I am then comfortable saying that 27% of the Canadian full-time workforce works directly for the government. Not good for progress. Edit: updated 100 times to clarify. [1] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm [2] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/labr69a-eng.htm [3] http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.gc.ca/l01/cst01/govt62a-eng.htm [4] http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm http://www40.statcan.ca/l01/cst01/famil21a-eng.htm

diego_moita 15y ago

> Also, the last piece of candy: 'The so called “poor countries,” such as Brazil, have this hunger. They are going to catch up on us.' Disclosure: I am Brazilian. They might, but it will take much longer than anyone expects. The truth is that Europe has a lot of advantages when compared to countries like Brazil, India, etc. 1) Working institutions, including the rule of the law. Don't get me started about the ineptitude and incompetence of Brazilian police and courts. 2) A notion of what good governance means, at least outside of Italy and the PIGS. Patronage is so widespread and accepted here that this word doesn't even have a direct translation. 3) Culture and I don't mean classical erudition, but basic literacy. 4) A working credit industry. Only farmers and people with connections in the government can get easy credit in here. For all others the interest rates are a rip-off. Also, few people realize that some of the problems Europe has (decreasing population) are already arriving here; so it is possible that we get old before we get rich.

swah 15y ago
But we have the jeitinho brasileiro.