7 ms·

Apple is complying with Chinese shell companies to take down my apps

21 points by alirsgp 6y ago

I have video chatting apps on the App Store and there are Chinese shell companies who submit takedown notices for generic terms, and Apple asks me to comply. They ask that I don’t even rank for certain keywords. And they don’t even provide information on their trademark number. They just want less competition. I want to know what my options are. Apple is also not clear when I ask them why an app like Instagram can show up when I search Snapchat. What legal recourse can I take here? The Chinese company submitting takedowns against US devs is Beijing Lakesha Network Technology Co. Ltd.

zepto 6y ago
Can you link to some specifics? Generally people criticize Apple for the opposite - that they don’t respond to takedown requests. It would help a lot to see what exact kind of thing you are dealing with.
- alirsgp 6y ago
  Sure. An example app is the keyword Monkey. It’s a generic keyword but the Chinese shell company is trying to make it so only their app ranks for it. Apple is complying with these requests, even though for keywords like Instagram and Snapchat, they permit large apps to rank for each other’s brands.
  - zepto 6y ago
    I just tried searching for Monkey in the App Store. I see well over 50 results. A whole bunch of games, things like ‘SurveyMonkey’ a dating app or two, some random social things. They are from a variety of different companies. It’s not obvious from this what you are describing. Is there something specific to look for? Where are you getting the information about the shell companies and the requests Apple is responding to?
    - bigpumpkin 6y ago
      There's a social video app called "Monkey" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cool.monkey.android&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cool.monkey.an... I'm guessing OP had "Monkey" as a keyword?
      - zepto 6y ago
        That app doesn’t appear either as a paid ad, or in the search results for the word “Monkey” on the iOS App Store. I’m not sure it even has an iOS version. It’s not clear how that app is connected with what the OP is describing. The OP has added the name of a Chinese company, but I can’t see what Apps it is behind. The app you listed is described as being developed by 5 teens from LA. Perhaps that is the OP’s app?
jimsmart 6y ago
It depends. In SEO this kind of strategy could be considered to be 'keyword stuffing'. Apple have specific rules regarding keywords in the App Store, as I'm sure you must already be aware. They specifically state: "The unauthorized use of trademarked terms, celebrity names, or other protected words and phrases is not allowed and is a common reason for App Store rejection. The use of terms that are not relevant to the app and the use of competing app names are similarly prohibited." [0] — and any of these clauses are what could be biting you, but I specifically suspect, as you claim in another thread that you are in fact using the name of a competitor app in your keywords, it will be the final sentence that you are falling foul of. Even if it is also a generic term, if that term is not relevant to your app (is your app actually about monkey(s)? I guess not, otherwise there would be little argument), then you will have little recourse: you have already agreed to these terms as part of one of your contractual agreements with Apple. Furthermore, I suspect that, because of the way this clause is worded, the offending keyword doesn't even need to be protected by trademark law: it merely needs to be the name of a competitor's app. Should you choose to challenge it, you will need to build your case around those three clauses: the first is standard copyright/trademark law stuff. Sure, one can argue it's a generic term, but then one's actions (using the keyword in your context) would still appear as possible "passing off". Then you would have to prove that the ostensibly generic term in question is in fact relevant to your app. But you're gonna get stuck with that final clause if your keyword is in fact the name of a competitor's app. I don't think there's much argument there, and this is likely a part of the agreed contract between Apple and yourself. That's how I read it anyway. But I'm certainly not a lawyer, (I'm a software engineer), though I have dealt with a bit of contract law over the years. I'd also advise you to seek proper legal advice if you intend to try and challenge any of Apple's contracts, because Apple most certainly have already in the first instance, and losing one's developer license — particularly over something as small as keyword stuffing — could likely be quite devastating in many instances. (I'm certainly not saying don't challenge their contract at all, merely that you should make the right preparation if you intend to do so: it's pretty easy to find legal advice on contract law) [0] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/search/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/search/
- zepto 6y ago
  Worth noting that when I searched earlier there wasn’t an app actually called Monkey in the iOS store results.
zhte415 6y ago
I suggest you change the name of you app. This seems like a legitimate company and not a trademark farmer [1] with a video conference/messaging app with the name MONKEY and the corresponding valid trademark. And what does the company being Chinese have anything to do with anything? Also not a 'shell' company. A quick Baidu tells me the company is called 北京拉克沙网络科技有限公司 with a registered capital of 35,000,000 Yuan. [1] https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/beijing-lakesha-network-technology-co-ltd-4573660/ https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/beijing-lakesha-network...

21 points by alirsgp 6y ago

zepto 6y ago

Can you link to some specifics? Generally people criticize Apple for the opposite - that they don’t respond to takedown requests. It would help a lot to see what exact kind of thing you are dealing with.

alirsgp 6y ago
Sure. An example app is the keyword Monkey. It’s a generic keyword but the Chinese shell company is trying to make it so only their app ranks for it. Apple is complying with these requests, even though for keywords like Instagram and Snapchat, they permit large apps to rank for each other’s brands.
- zepto 6y ago
  I just tried searching for Monkey in the App Store. I see well over 50 results. A whole bunch of games, things like ‘SurveyMonkey’ a dating app or two, some random social things. They are from a variety of different companies. It’s not obvious from this what you are describing. Is there something specific to look for? Where are you getting the information about the shell companies and the requests Apple is responding to?
  - bigpumpkin 6y ago
    There's a social video app called "Monkey" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cool.monkey.android&hl=en_US&gl=US https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=cool.monkey.an... I'm guessing OP had "Monkey" as a keyword?
    - zepto 6y ago
      That app doesn’t appear either as a paid ad, or in the search results for the word “Monkey” on the iOS App Store. I’m not sure it even has an iOS version. It’s not clear how that app is connected with what the OP is describing. The OP has added the name of a Chinese company, but I can’t see what Apps it is behind. The app you listed is described as being developed by 5 teens from LA. Perhaps that is the OP’s app?

jimsmart 6y ago

It depends. In SEO this kind of strategy could be considered to be 'keyword stuffing'. Apple have specific rules regarding keywords in the App Store, as I'm sure you must already be aware. They specifically state: "The unauthorized use of trademarked terms, celebrity names, or other protected words and phrases is not allowed and is a common reason for App Store rejection. The use of terms that are not relevant to the app and the use of competing app names are similarly prohibited." [0] — and any of these clauses are what could be biting you, but I specifically suspect, as you claim in another thread that you are in fact using the name of a competitor app in your keywords, it will be the final sentence that you are falling foul of. Even if it is also a generic term, if that term is not relevant to your app (is your app actually about monkey(s)? I guess not, otherwise there would be little argument), then you will have little recourse: you have already agreed to these terms as part of one of your contractual agreements with Apple. Furthermore, I suspect that, because of the way this clause is worded, the offending keyword doesn't even need to be protected by trademark law: it merely needs to be the name of a competitor's app. Should you choose to challenge it, you will need to build your case around those three clauses: the first is standard copyright/trademark law stuff. Sure, one can argue it's a generic term, but then one's actions (using the keyword in your context) would still appear as possible "passing off". Then you would have to prove that the ostensibly generic term in question is in fact relevant to your app. But you're gonna get stuck with that final clause if your keyword is in fact the name of a competitor's app. I don't think there's much argument there, and this is likely a part of the agreed contract between Apple and yourself. That's how I read it anyway. But I'm certainly not a lawyer, (I'm a software engineer), though I have dealt with a bit of contract law over the years. I'd also advise you to seek proper legal advice if you intend to try and challenge any of Apple's contracts, because Apple most certainly have already in the first instance, and losing one's developer license — particularly over something as small as keyword stuffing — could likely be quite devastating in many instances. (I'm certainly not saying don't challenge their contract at all, merely that you should make the right preparation if you intend to do so: it's pretty easy to find legal advice on contract law) [0] https://developer.apple.com/app-store/search/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/search/

zepto 6y ago
Worth noting that when I searched earlier there wasn’t an app actually called Monkey in the iOS store results.

zhte415 6y ago

I suggest you change the name of you app. This seems like a legitimate company and not a trademark farmer [1] with a video conference/messaging app with the name MONKEY and the corresponding valid trademark. And what does the company being Chinese have anything to do with anything? Also not a 'shell' company. A quick Baidu tells me the company is called 北京拉克沙网络科技有限公司 with a registered capital of 35,000,000 Yuan. [1] https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/beijing-lakesha-network-technology-co-ltd-4573660/ https://trademarks.justia.com/owners/beijing-lakesha-network...