4 ms·

Very interesting article, thanks! Where can I find out more about this topic? Are there online communities?

wizzwizz4 6y ago
There are, but this article isn't terribly accurate. (It's not bad, but it's not as good as the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism) Stuff like this: > Indeed, since we live in a post religious world now, they will become gods themselves. Transhumanism is a contemporary version of a modern project of human self-deification. is mostly just sensationalism; most transhumanists I know of don't think like that.
- beaconstudios 6y ago
  depends on which transhumanists I guess. There's certainly a lot that are obsessed with the singularity and the God-AI, which seems to be to be a post-religious projection of Christian Rapture. Or mind-uploading, or cryonics, or other over-simplified approaches to something like immortality. But there's also those who are interested in things like the quantified self, human physical/cognitive enhancement, bioengineering, that sort of thing. It's a big tent.
  - ggreer 6y ago
    One big difference is that the Christian rapture only rewards believers and punishes nonbelievers with eternal torture. The goal of transhumanism is to allow everyone to live as long and as healthy of a life as possible. Also transhumanism doesn’t promise immortality. Best case, consciousness would persist until the heat death of the universe. A very long time, but infinitely less time than infinity.
    - ceilingcorner 6y ago
      Christian eschatology is much more complicated than what you’ve said. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology
      - ggreer 6y ago
        I was using the simplified definition of the rapture that the parent poster was most likely referencing. I’m aware that different sects have different beliefs about what happens to nonbelievers. Still, the vast majority of Christians do not think that atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, or Scientologists will get into heaven. Also the article you linked to does not contradict me: > The rapture is an eschatological term used by certain Christians, particularly within branches of North American evangelicalism, referring to an end time event when all Christian believers—living and dead—will rise into Heaven and join Christ.
        ceilingcorner 6y ago
        Again, it is very complicated. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_universalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_univers...
    - beaconstudios 6y ago
      > One big difference is that the Christian rapture only rewards believers and punishes nonbelievers with eternal torture. Isn't this basically the same as Roko's basilisk? It isn't really a big difference anyway. Both are pursuing an instant of uplifting immortality. The fact that the 'new' form is non-exclusionary is just like the fact that it's non-religious: unimportant. > Also transhumanism doesn’t promise immortality. Best case, consciousness would persist until the heat death of the universe. A very long time, but infinitely less time than infinity. sounds like a distinction without a difference.
  - emteycz 6y ago
    I'm very interested in the second group, especially in topics around mind. Do you have any tips where I could meet these people?
    - exdsq 6y ago
      The extropian mailing list has both groups on it, including some fairly 'big' names in the field. Hal Finney was a member before he died and is cryogenically preserved, I met Anders Sandburg on there once who works on things like whole-brain emulation.
- pepperonipizza 6y ago
  Which is the most active community online outside of r/transhumanism?
- rglullis 6y ago
  Could you provide any counterexample? What you call sensationalist I would call almost tautological: those who want to find a way to live forever reject natural order of life and all of its metaphysics.
  - hn8788 6y ago
    I think the sensational part is where it describes transhumanists as wanting to become deities, not just live long healthy lives. I personally think it's a natural path to go down, in a similar vein as clothing, tools, and air conditioning. There are definitely ethical issues, like poor people not being able to afford augmentations and compete in the world, but I think elective medical/mechanical enhancements are an inevitability.
    - rglullis 6y ago
      We had people with "long healthy lives" for millennia already, they were just the exception and not the norm. They were still human. A monk in the Middle Ages would live well into their seventies and eighties without wishing to find ways to live forever. A more contemporary example would be to talk about all the "natural life" followers or those closer to the temperance movement: equally interested in long healthy lives, but dismissive of the idea that "augmentations" or "enhancements" are something necessary or even desirable. So to me, this is still "human", they still want a long, healthy life, but their means to it is by via negativa: instead of adding things to your body hoping to increase the quality of life, they would avoid the things that are consider harmful. Contrast that with "transhumanism", whose idea is to be able to control the environment and elements of nature to the point where they can shape everything to their liking, even if it means adding whatever it takes to their bodies. If that's not some sign of trying to outmake our own Maker, what is?
      - emteycz 6y ago
        > If that's not some sign of trying to outmake our own Maker, what is? I think most of transhumanist don't think there is a Maker. How could they take this view? I myself am a godless person - religion wasn't even a topic during my childhood, in school, etc. I wouldn't even think about this without you telling me the idea.
morpheos137 6y ago
https://hedweb.org https://hedweb.org Nothing has happened since 1996 or whenever; lets you know how impractical it all is. Fascinating sci-fi read though.
mindcrime 6y ago
https://transhumanism.reddit.com https://transhumanism.reddit.com

There are, but this article isn't terribly accurate. (It's not bad, but it's not as good as the Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transhumanism) Stuff like this: > Indeed, since we live in a post religious world now, they will become gods themselves. Transhumanism is a contemporary version of a modern project of human self-deification. is mostly just sensationalism; most transhumanists I know of don't think like that.

beaconstudios 6y ago
depends on which transhumanists I guess. There's certainly a lot that are obsessed with the singularity and the God-AI, which seems to be to be a post-religious projection of Christian Rapture. Or mind-uploading, or cryonics, or other over-simplified approaches to something like immortality. But there's also those who are interested in things like the quantified self, human physical/cognitive enhancement, bioengineering, that sort of thing. It's a big tent.
- ggreer 6y ago
  One big difference is that the Christian rapture only rewards believers and punishes nonbelievers with eternal torture. The goal of transhumanism is to allow everyone to live as long and as healthy of a life as possible. Also transhumanism doesn’t promise immortality. Best case, consciousness would persist until the heat death of the universe. A very long time, but infinitely less time than infinity.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    Christian eschatology is much more complicated than what you’ve said. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_eschatology
    - ggreer 6y ago
      I was using the simplified definition of the rapture that the parent poster was most likely referencing. I’m aware that different sects have different beliefs about what happens to nonbelievers. Still, the vast majority of Christians do not think that atheists, Muslims, Buddhists, or Scientologists will get into heaven. Also the article you linked to does not contradict me: > The rapture is an eschatological term used by certain Christians, particularly within branches of North American evangelicalism, referring to an end time event when all Christian believers—living and dead—will rise into Heaven and join Christ.
      - ceilingcorner 6y ago
        Again, it is very complicated. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_universalism https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christian_univers...
  - beaconstudios 6y ago
    > One big difference is that the Christian rapture only rewards believers and punishes nonbelievers with eternal torture. Isn't this basically the same as Roko's basilisk? It isn't really a big difference anyway. Both are pursuing an instant of uplifting immortality. The fact that the 'new' form is non-exclusionary is just like the fact that it's non-religious: unimportant. > Also transhumanism doesn’t promise immortality. Best case, consciousness would persist until the heat death of the universe. A very long time, but infinitely less time than infinity. sounds like a distinction without a difference.
- emteycz 6y ago
  I'm very interested in the second group, especially in topics around mind. Do you have any tips where I could meet these people?
  - exdsq 6y ago
    The extropian mailing list has both groups on it, including some fairly 'big' names in the field. Hal Finney was a member before he died and is cryogenically preserved, I met Anders Sandburg on there once who works on things like whole-brain emulation.
pepperonipizza 6y ago
Which is the most active community online outside of r/transhumanism?
rglullis 6y ago
Could you provide any counterexample? What you call sensationalist I would call almost tautological: those who want to find a way to live forever reject natural order of life and all of its metaphysics.
- hn8788 6y ago
  I think the sensational part is where it describes transhumanists as wanting to become deities, not just live long healthy lives. I personally think it's a natural path to go down, in a similar vein as clothing, tools, and air conditioning. There are definitely ethical issues, like poor people not being able to afford augmentations and compete in the world, but I think elective medical/mechanical enhancements are an inevitability.
  - rglullis 6y ago
    We had people with "long healthy lives" for millennia already, they were just the exception and not the norm. They were still human. A monk in the Middle Ages would live well into their seventies and eighties without wishing to find ways to live forever. A more contemporary example would be to talk about all the "natural life" followers or those closer to the temperance movement: equally interested in long healthy lives, but dismissive of the idea that "augmentations" or "enhancements" are something necessary or even desirable. So to me, this is still "human", they still want a long, healthy life, but their means to it is by via negativa: instead of adding things to your body hoping to increase the quality of life, they would avoid the things that are consider harmful. Contrast that with "transhumanism", whose idea is to be able to control the environment and elements of nature to the point where they can shape everything to their liking, even if it means adding whatever it takes to their bodies. If that's not some sign of trying to outmake our own Maker, what is?
    - emteycz 6y ago
      > If that's not some sign of trying to outmake our own Maker, what is? I think most of transhumanist don't think there is a Maker. How could they take this view? I myself am a godless person - religion wasn't even a topic during my childhood, in school, etc. I wouldn't even think about this without you telling me the idea.

morpheos137 6y ago

https://hedweb.org https://hedweb.org Nothing has happened since 1996 or whenever; lets you know how impractical it all is. Fascinating sci-fi read though.

mindcrime 6y ago

https://transhumanism.reddit.com https://transhumanism.reddit.com