3 ms·

I am not a lawyer, and I don't claim I understand the legal mechanisms involved. I don't even claim GDPR is perfect. But, as I see it, EU is protecting its cit

by drclau 6y ago

I am not a lawyer, and I don't claim I understand the legal mechanisms involved. I don't even claim GDPR is perfect. But, as I see it, EU is protecting its citizens. If you want to do business with EU citizens you must abide by EU regulations. It's that simple. I don't get how this came to be all of a sudden about colonialism. Any business is free to stay out of EU.

cortesoft 6y ago
And any EU citizen is free to not do business with a company outside the EU. Do you think the EU laws should apply to people selling things to EU citizens while they are on vacation in other parts of the world? If someone from Germany travels to Brazil and buys something from a store, are they required to abide by EU rules? If someone from the EU leaves the EU digitally to buy something in another country, it isn't up to the seller to enforce EU rules. Unless you have an entity (either yourself or your business) under EU jurisdiction, you don't have to follow their rules.
- drclau 6y ago
  There's an asymmetry of information and power in the relationship between a business and a citizen. Governments, generally, attempt to mitigate this asymmetry. Hence, we have consumer protection laws, GDPR and the likes. While these solutions may be incomplete, or imperfect, having none is definitely worse. > If someone from the EU leaves the EU digitally to buy something in another country, it isn't up to the seller to enforce EU rules. > Unless you have an entity (either yourself or your business) under EU jurisdiction, you don't have to follow their rules. Please _do_ read the link I already posted in a previous comment [0]. It clarifies many things, but I don't want to paste too much content here. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Applicability_outside_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
  - cortesoft 6y ago
    I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. I am not making any moral claim about whether a GDPR-type regulation is good or bad. I am simply saying that the EU saying the law applies outside their borders doesn’t make it so. If I am a US citizen living and working in the US, and break the GDPR by storing data illegally from visitors to my website from the EU, the EU can certainly try to fine me or issue a summons or whatever they want to do. However, there exists no extradition treaty for this law, and there would be no way for the EU to enforce judgement.
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      Yeah, this is the really frustrating thing about conversations about the GDPR: whatever you think about how companies should act, legislation doesn’t really matter unless there’s some way the government can take retributive action against those who ignore it. When someone asks about what this mechanism is, you inevitably get a whole host of people assuming you dislike the legislation.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    This article basically confirms my suspicion that this provision is basically unenforceable: http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr-wall/ http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr...
msla 6y ago
> If you want to do business with EU citizens you must abide by EU regulations. No, no more than if I want to do business with Saudis I'm liable for punishment if I drink a beer.
- drclau 6y ago
  But that's not really a good analogy (not that analogies are proof). A better analogy would be you selling beers in Saudi Arabia. I urge you to read this, it should clarify things: Applicability outside of the European Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Applicability_outside_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
  - msla 6y ago
    They claim it applies. That doesn't make it so: http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr-wall/ http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr...

by drclau 6y ago

cortesoft 6y ago

And any EU citizen is free to not do business with a company outside the EU. Do you think the EU laws should apply to people selling things to EU citizens while they are on vacation in other parts of the world? If someone from Germany travels to Brazil and buys something from a store, are they required to abide by EU rules? If someone from the EU leaves the EU digitally to buy something in another country, it isn't up to the seller to enforce EU rules. Unless you have an entity (either yourself or your business) under EU jurisdiction, you don't have to follow their rules.

drclau 6y ago
There's an asymmetry of information and power in the relationship between a business and a citizen. Governments, generally, attempt to mitigate this asymmetry. Hence, we have consumer protection laws, GDPR and the likes. While these solutions may be incomplete, or imperfect, having none is definitely worse. > If someone from the EU leaves the EU digitally to buy something in another country, it isn't up to the seller to enforce EU rules. > Unless you have an entity (either yourself or your business) under EU jurisdiction, you don't have to follow their rules. Please _do_ read the link I already posted in a previous comment [0]. It clarifies many things, but I don't want to paste too much content here. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Applicability_outside_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
- cortesoft 6y ago
  I am not sure what you are trying to argue here. I am not making any moral claim about whether a GDPR-type regulation is good or bad. I am simply saying that the EU saying the law applies outside their borders doesn’t make it so. If I am a US citizen living and working in the US, and break the GDPR by storing data illegally from visitors to my website from the EU, the EU can certainly try to fine me or issue a summons or whatever they want to do. However, there exists no extradition treaty for this law, and there would be no way for the EU to enforce judgement.
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Yeah, this is the really frustrating thing about conversations about the GDPR: whatever you think about how companies should act, legislation doesn’t really matter unless there’s some way the government can take retributive action against those who ignore it. When someone asks about what this mechanism is, you inevitably get a whole host of people assuming you dislike the legislation.
- fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
  This article basically confirms my suspicion that this provision is basically unenforceable: http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr-wall/ http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr...

msla 6y ago

> If you want to do business with EU citizens you must abide by EU regulations. No, no more than if I want to do business with Saudis I'm liable for punishment if I drink a beer.

drclau 6y ago
But that's not really a good analogy (not that analogies are proof). A better analogy would be you selling beers in Saudi Arabia. I urge you to read this, it should clarify things: Applicability outside of the European Union: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regulation#Applicability_outside_of_the_European_Union https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Data_Protection_Regula...
- msla 6y ago
  They claim it applies. That doesn't make it so: http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr-wall/ http://slawsonandslawson.com/article-32-the-hole-in-the-gdpr...