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In some sense it is reasonable to tax companies on profit rather than revenue as there are plenty of intermediaries who are good for the economy but who make ti
by dan-robertson 6y ago
In some sense it is reasonable to tax companies on profit rather than revenue as there are plenty of intermediaries who are good for the economy but who make tiny margins and therefore couldn’t survive if they were taxed on revenue. On the other hand, it seems there are insufficient incentives for companies to make a profit which then gets taxed rather than stashing cash in various ways or busting back stock (I think this is taxes but less than profits but I might be wrong). It also feels reasonable to tax people on income rather than some kind of profit analogue because, frankly, many people don’t make much profit and it doesn’t really make sense to talk of profit: if people are their own shareholders then is buying a house an expense or a profit distributed to the shareholders in kind?
I worry that it can distort the way the economy works in a way that prioritises appealing to businesses as they pay less for things. For example if you want to spend $200 at a restaurant then you need to generate (say) $400 gross income which means generating (say) $1000 of value for your employer. Whereas if that employer wants to spend $200 at that restaurant then they must forego $200 of profit which means they must forgo (say) $160 of post-tax profits. This massively incentives that restaurant to appeal to companies because it is cheaper for them.
While companies are in some sense made of people, I think their spending is unrepresentative because it has less variance. Companies tend to like boring things (often there might not be much they can do about it) so if their willingness to buy things is so important, we will also get more boring things. (Consider charities: if your company decides to give 1% of profits/revenue/whatever to charity, they will probably have to give to some extremely generic charity that many people don’t particularly like. If instead they allocate that 1% between employees to choose how it is distributed, you would expect to see money going to a wider variety of charities. I claim that is better for the people in the company and for charities in general.)
It also doesn’t feel particularly capitalist that companies are incentivised to not have profits. Maybe you just think capitalism is bad but I don’t think it’s better for companies to stash profits than to give up the capital to be allocated to better things, whatever they may be.
I don’t really have a good answer. Georgism doesn’t seem like a great answer to me. Even the very wealthy don’t need to own a particularly large amount of land. The main use is for farming and it feels regressive to put almost all taxation into the price of food. It seems like too much value isn’t derived from the land itself anymore.
Taxing other exclusive rights (eg patents) from which value can be derived also doesn’t feel great as plenty of profitable businesses don’t need patents (including plenty who have many patents).
I think I’d want some kind of scheme where Amazon would have to pay an amount of tax that would feel fair to someone who ran a high-street shop, rather than paying a tax on the size of their warehouses.
Maybe the solution is a regressive tax like a high vat in combination with some measure to counter the regressiveness like UBI, but I’m not very convinced of the real-world merits of UBI.
Maybe the solution is just to have company spending dominate our economy.
- xapata 6y agoWhat's unconvincing about UBI? What'd you think of the 2020 unemployment benefits?
- dan-robertson 6y agoI think it is untenable to basically tell great swathes of the population that they are unnecessary to the economy but here’s some cash for you. I don’t think it is good for the psyche to be put in such a position. I’m sure proponents of UBI have claims that it will provide a safety net allowing people to start businesses or do what they want with their lives but I think assuming it will work for everyone is wishful thinking. I worry it would lead to a situation where the wealthy educated people living in major cities are ok and employed as before while many others are left with nothing but handouts. It’d surely be hard to build a democracy on such a divide—just look at America already. I don’t know about the 2020 unemployment benefits as I don’t live in the US.
- xapata 6y ago> unnecessary to the economy I don't think that's the message of UBI. While one could view it somewhat as a charitable policy, with a more cold outlook it's a good policy as a mechanism to make free-market capitalism function more robustly. Think of it like re-balancing your portfolio. Some people don't like calling humans capital or assets, saying that's cold-hearted. If you don't mind that word choice, then it's relatively easy to explain UBI as promoting the long-term health of the economy. Contrary to the message of "unnecessary to the economy," UBI is important precisely because the recipients are critical to the health of the economy. > assuming it will work for everyone I don't think most people think it will work for everyone. Almost no policy is perfect. > It’d surely be hard to build a democracy on such a divide Yes, that's what people were discovering in the late 19th century and early 20th century, and why many capitalist democracies began adopting anti-trust laws and social programs. For example, the Sherman Antitrust Act and the Social Security Act in the US. I expect that UBI will have the opposite effect that you expect, helping alleviate inequality. > I don’t know about the 2020 unemployment benefits as I don’t live in the US. They turned out to be a good policy. Despite fears that people would choose to not work, because they were receiving more money to stay at home, wages did not rise and job openings did not spike. On average. Some differences across industries and locations, of course.