4 ms·

Myth Busters did an episode about this. Basically they found that the optimal method mathematically did not get high satisfaction marks and the most satisfying

Myth Busters did an episode about this. Basically they found that the optimal method mathematically did not get high satisfaction marks and the most satisfying method was definitely not the fastest. I guess we value fairness more than we value overall efficiency. https://mythresults.com/airplane-boarding https://mythresults.com/airplane-boarding

harha 6y ago
On the fairness aspect: one issue is checking in hand luggage and the perception that boarding first will increase the chances of avoiding that and the wait at the luggage belt after the flight. There are several things to improve: 1. it would be good to inform about the need to check luggage before walking through the whole airport or at least giving that option, it’s very annoying to carry luggage around only for it to be checked in at the last moment. 2. incentives would be nice, eg if a flight is fully booked, why not add a small amount of extra weight if you volunteer to check in the hand luggage. 3. primarily check in those who also have checked in luggage. I’ve often been on flights where they check in the hand luggage of some people, then you end up waiting with many others who took the hand luggage on board and are waiting for checked luggage. 4. Let people upgrade for a small fee last minute, say 5-10$ to avoid checking in, but only as a last measure. Once the luggage is dealt with I don’t see why anyone would care - I’d prefer boarding last in that case.
- easton 6y ago
  If you knew you’d be able to check your too big to carryon bag at the gate for free you would never pay the cost of checking it before security (unless it is too large to fit through the X-ray scanner at TSA).
  - xboxnolifes 6y ago
    Or if you're packing things that can't go in carry-ons.
  - harha 6y ago
    You can solve that by not offering it as a default option, but rather only when the need arises. Here's a case: Say you have a flight booked at 125/120 seats, there's 80 spots overhead: - expect 5 not to come (120 left) - 25 have booked checked luggage, offer them to hand in their carry on (95 left) - for the remaining 15 until enough people take the offer: offer a higher quota when they check in their hand luggage, e.g. 12kg instead of 8kgs as long as the luggage is the same size - if anything remains only then use the old system pretty sure this would be popular, it's less unfair/annoying and takes care of issues in advance at a fairly low cost (of the 15 getting extra weight, not all of these would actually pay for more luggage or even bring more, by not taking more or putting heavy items in jackets etc.)
burlesona 6y ago
Note that the Southwest Airlines method (no assigned seats) was fastest in the Mythbusters test. I’m surprised that it got such a low “satisfaction” rating, as it’s one of the main appealing factors for me to fly Southwest. Maybe it’s just very polarizing, and SWA “gets away with it” because their market share roughly represents the percentage of travelers who like that method?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- ghaff 6y ago
  As a business traveler who at least used to have status on an airline, I'm a big NOPE on unassigned seats. Would pretty much cause me to never fly an airline except under duress.
- zippergz 6y ago
  I fly Southwest quite a bit (well, did before covid...) because their routes and timing work well for me. But I absolutely despise their boarding system. Or, at least, I despise the lack of seat assignments. I care a lot about what seat I get (I travel quite a bit, and know what makes me most comfortable), and I hate feeling like I have to 1) get an early boarding number, 2) make sure I hover around the gate early so I don't miss my turn, and 3) hope there aren't a ton of through passengers in order to get a seat I like. Assigned seats obviously do not guarantee me my ideal seat, but at least I have a fighting chance (sometimes I will pay for an upgrade depending on what's available and whether I have status on that airline), and I don't have to stress about where I'm going to end up. What matters more to me? Being comfortable for the 2-5 hours I'm in the air, or shaving 10 minutes off of the time it takes to get on and off of the plane? It's a no brainer. I ABSOLUTELY realize that in the grand scheme of things, this is an incredibly minor issue. There are much bigger problems in the world. But if I'm going to be flying a lot, as I have during certain career phases, every little thing that makes it a little more comfortable or less stressful does make a difference. And for me, the Southwest seating/boarding system adds stress.
  - maxerickson 6y ago
sneak 6y ago
This is something I find to be true a lot in many different places. Humans place outsized (IMO incorrect) value on things like fairness, perceived fairness, and sometimes even retribution/punishment, in cases where they really do no good at all. Something we failed to shuck when we came down from the trees, I guess, to paraphrase Heinlein. It's sort of crazy how often this comes back up again and again once you notice this. Behaviors while driving are another big one.
- IgorPartola 6y ago
  Here are two examples I have seen with driving that are completely bass ackwards but support your point. A motorcycle parks in a car spot in a busy parking lot that has no designated motorcycle parking spots. Car drivers get annoyed with the motorcycle (sometimes accosting the rider or leaving angry notes on the bike) for taking up a car spot. Those people that do this do not consider that the motorcyclist could have just used their car and taken up the exact same spot and they’d never know the alternative existed. But because it’s a bike they can’t get past how it’s unfair. Another one is lane filtering (sometimes incorrectly known as lane splitting). I am not talking about zooming past everyone at double the speed but the practice of motorcycles riding between cars to the head of the column at stop lights and the practice of motorcycles riding between cars when the cars are moving slowly due to traffic. Legal lane splitting in states like CA limits your speed difference to 15 mph above the average speed of the cars and research unequivocally shows that this practice results in fewer accidents (bikes often times get rear ended at lights due to cars not seeing them so being between cars is a huge safety boost), and good for traffic (bikes not taking up a spot that a car could occupy). Yet people get supremely annoyed at this because they think the riders are somehow cheating.
maxerickson 6y ago
Not really. Think about grocery checkouts. Pretty much no one does the fair, efficient method of having a single line.

harha 6y ago

On the fairness aspect: one issue is checking in hand luggage and the perception that boarding first will increase the chances of avoiding that and the wait at the luggage belt after the flight. There are several things to improve: 1. it would be good to inform about the need to check luggage before walking through the whole airport or at least giving that option, it’s very annoying to carry luggage around only for it to be checked in at the last moment. 2. incentives would be nice, eg if a flight is fully booked, why not add a small amount of extra weight if you volunteer to check in the hand luggage. 3. primarily check in those who also have checked in luggage. I’ve often been on flights where they check in the hand luggage of some people, then you end up waiting with many others who took the hand luggage on board and are waiting for checked luggage. 4. Let people upgrade for a small fee last minute, say 5-10$ to avoid checking in, but only as a last measure. Once the luggage is dealt with I don’t see why anyone would care - I’d prefer boarding last in that case.

easton 6y ago
If you knew you’d be able to check your too big to carryon bag at the gate for free you would never pay the cost of checking it before security (unless it is too large to fit through the X-ray scanner at TSA).
- xboxnolifes 6y ago
  Or if you're packing things that can't go in carry-ons.
- harha 6y ago
  You can solve that by not offering it as a default option, but rather only when the need arises. Here's a case: Say you have a flight booked at 125/120 seats, there's 80 spots overhead: - expect 5 not to come (120 left) - 25 have booked checked luggage, offer them to hand in their carry on (95 left) - for the remaining 15 until enough people take the offer: offer a higher quota when they check in their hand luggage, e.g. 12kg instead of 8kgs as long as the luggage is the same size - if anything remains only then use the old system pretty sure this would be popular, it's less unfair/annoying and takes care of issues in advance at a fairly low cost (of the 15 getting extra weight, not all of these would actually pay for more luggage or even bring more, by not taking more or putting heavy items in jackets etc.)

burlesona 6y ago

Note that the Southwest Airlines method (no assigned seats) was fastest in the Mythbusters test. I’m surprised that it got such a low “satisfaction” rating, as it’s one of the main appealing factors for me to fly Southwest. Maybe it’s just very polarizing, and SWA “gets away with it” because their market share roughly represents the percentage of travelers who like that method?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
ghaff 6y ago
As a business traveler who at least used to have status on an airline, I'm a big NOPE on unassigned seats. Would pretty much cause me to never fly an airline except under duress.
zippergz 6y ago
I fly Southwest quite a bit (well, did before covid...) because their routes and timing work well for me. But I absolutely despise their boarding system. Or, at least, I despise the lack of seat assignments. I care a lot about what seat I get (I travel quite a bit, and know what makes me most comfortable), and I hate feeling like I have to 1) get an early boarding number, 2) make sure I hover around the gate early so I don't miss my turn, and 3) hope there aren't a ton of through passengers in order to get a seat I like. Assigned seats obviously do not guarantee me my ideal seat, but at least I have a fighting chance (sometimes I will pay for an upgrade depending on what's available and whether I have status on that airline), and I don't have to stress about where I'm going to end up. What matters more to me? Being comfortable for the 2-5 hours I'm in the air, or shaving 10 minutes off of the time it takes to get on and off of the plane? It's a no brainer. I ABSOLUTELY realize that in the grand scheme of things, this is an incredibly minor issue. There are much bigger problems in the world. But if I'm going to be flying a lot, as I have during certain career phases, every little thing that makes it a little more comfortable or less stressful does make a difference. And for me, the Southwest seating/boarding system adds stress.
- maxerickson 6y ago

sneak 6y ago

This is something I find to be true a lot in many different places. Humans place outsized (IMO incorrect) value on things like fairness, perceived fairness, and sometimes even retribution/punishment, in cases where they really do no good at all. Something we failed to shuck when we came down from the trees, I guess, to paraphrase Heinlein. It's sort of crazy how often this comes back up again and again once you notice this. Behaviors while driving are another big one.

IgorPartola 6y ago
Here are two examples I have seen with driving that are completely bass ackwards but support your point. A motorcycle parks in a car spot in a busy parking lot that has no designated motorcycle parking spots. Car drivers get annoyed with the motorcycle (sometimes accosting the rider or leaving angry notes on the bike) for taking up a car spot. Those people that do this do not consider that the motorcyclist could have just used their car and taken up the exact same spot and they’d never know the alternative existed. But because it’s a bike they can’t get past how it’s unfair. Another one is lane filtering (sometimes incorrectly known as lane splitting). I am not talking about zooming past everyone at double the speed but the practice of motorcycles riding between cars to the head of the column at stop lights and the practice of motorcycles riding between cars when the cars are moving slowly due to traffic. Legal lane splitting in states like CA limits your speed difference to 15 mph above the average speed of the cars and research unequivocally shows that this practice results in fewer accidents (bikes often times get rear ended at lights due to cars not seeing them so being between cars is a huge safety boost), and good for traffic (bikes not taking up a spot that a car could occupy). Yet people get supremely annoyed at this because they think the riders are somehow cheating.

maxerickson 6y ago

Not really. Think about grocery checkouts. Pretty much no one does the fair, efficient method of having a single line.