4 ms·

I (and I think a lot of poker players) would disagree. Everything in life involves some sort of risk, but doesn't mean it's gambling. Gambling is defined exact

I (and I think a lot of poker players) would disagree. Everything in life involves some sort of risk, but doesn't mean it's gambling. Gambling is defined exactly by those two properties. You could die driving to the store, but the odds are tiny and the benefits are huge. Driving to the store isn't gambling. Are casinos gambling when they let you play blackjack? No, the bets are +EV, even those they are only a few % different than the player odds. You say poker players are gambling and then say gambling is taking a high risk bet. Good poker players make positive expected value bets, and have correct bet sizing (via Kelly Criterion) that means they will be able to survive variance and win.

hgjnhikn 6y ago
Bet sizing in poker is not determined by the Kelly criterion, it's determined by maximum expected value with at most a tiny penalty for high risk. Where you could in theory apply the Kelly criterion is in selecting which stakes to play at. But in practice it seems more chosen through rules of thumb / common sense / feeling than an actual application of the Kelly criterion.
- Raidion 6y ago
  Yes, exactly. Bets in the game are determined if they are plus EV, but what game you sit at is determined by Kelly Criterion (or usually a 20-25 buyin roll depending on the game, your life roll, etc)
deleted 6y ago
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sneak 6y ago
> You could die driving to the store, but the odds are tiny and the benefits are huge. Driving to the store isn't gambling. This statement seems uncontroversial, but I am not sure it is true. Driving to the store is one of the riskiest activities I (used to) regularly engage in. Now that I do it (much) less, I do indeed perform a risk/reward analysis of getting into a car (when before it was automatic, with an assumed zero risk due to normalcy bias). It is possible that under a strict definition we are indeed gambling with our lives each time we get in an automobile.
ReggieCommaRose 6y ago
I used to play full-time and I currently work in trading. Poker is definitely gambling. Casinos are gambling, they’re just doing so with massive volume and tiny risk (afaik). Trading is gambling. Gambling well is a subset of gambling.
- Raidion 6y ago
  I think I would be OK if we wanted to define all endeavors with an unsure outcome gambling, but I believe that makes most things in life gambling which means we need another word for especially risky endeavors with an unsure outcome. I think we have the same concept, but I'd be happy to call trading gambling if playing poker table games was called gambooooling.
  - ReggieCommaRose 6y ago
    I think if we have to make a distinction, then categorizing games of chance where you're wagering money or direct money equivalent seems like a fair one. And in that sense, I wouldn't consider every trip I make to a hole in the wall eatery gambling.

hgjnhikn 6y ago

Bet sizing in poker is not determined by the Kelly criterion, it's determined by maximum expected value with at most a tiny penalty for high risk. Where you could in theory apply the Kelly criterion is in selecting which stakes to play at. But in practice it seems more chosen through rules of thumb / common sense / feeling than an actual application of the Kelly criterion.

Raidion 6y ago
Yes, exactly. Bets in the game are determined if they are plus EV, but what game you sit at is determined by Kelly Criterion (or usually a 20-25 buyin roll depending on the game, your life roll, etc)

deleted 6y ago

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sneak 6y ago

> You could die driving to the store, but the odds are tiny and the benefits are huge. Driving to the store isn't gambling. This statement seems uncontroversial, but I am not sure it is true. Driving to the store is one of the riskiest activities I (used to) regularly engage in. Now that I do it (much) less, I do indeed perform a risk/reward analysis of getting into a car (when before it was automatic, with an assumed zero risk due to normalcy bias). It is possible that under a strict definition we are indeed gambling with our lives each time we get in an automobile.

ReggieCommaRose 6y ago

I used to play full-time and I currently work in trading. Poker is definitely gambling. Casinos are gambling, they’re just doing so with massive volume and tiny risk (afaik). Trading is gambling. Gambling well is a subset of gambling.

Raidion 6y ago
I think I would be OK if we wanted to define all endeavors with an unsure outcome gambling, but I believe that makes most things in life gambling which means we need another word for especially risky endeavors with an unsure outcome. I think we have the same concept, but I'd be happy to call trading gambling if playing poker table games was called gambooooling.
- ReggieCommaRose 6y ago
  I think if we have to make a distinction, then categorizing games of chance where you're wagering money or direct money equivalent seems like a fair one. And in that sense, I wouldn't consider every trip I make to a hole in the wall eatery gambling.