10 ms·

The Algorithmic Genius of Tom Stoppard’s “Arcadia”

45 points by diaphanous 6y ago

gcp123 6y ago
My favorite play since high school.
kkylin 6y ago
I just got my copy off the shelf & will have to re-read it. Is there a production available online that someone would recommend?
- dotsam 6y ago
  There is an audio recording by L.A. Theatre Works that you can listen to here https://beta.prx.org/stories/43614 https://beta.prx.org/stories/43614 and https://beta.prx.org/stories/43844 https://beta.prx.org/stories/43844
  - eszed 6y ago
    There's a brilliant theatrical moment that neither reading nor listening to this play can ever quite re-create. In the final act, while characters from both time-periods are sharing the stage, Augustus/Gus (the younger brother in both time-periods, played by the same actor) comes in the door, and for a moment you don't know which century he's in. This play is one of my go-tos for an example of what theatre can do that film and television cannot. Because theatre depends on the audience's imagination to create its reality (more so, or at least differently, than film), more than one reality can be simultaneously present, and time and space and distance can be collapsed.
    - kkylin 6y ago
      I've never had the chance to see it, and I really would like to. I suppose when things return to "normal"...
  - kkylin 6y ago
    Cool, thanks!
SpaceManNabs 6y ago
Arcadia is amazing. I commented about it on HN years ago, and it seems to be quite popular among this crowd for good reason.
scandox 6y ago
I saw this at its first run at The National Theatre in 1993. I certainly enjoyed it a lot but even at fifteen my feeling was that it was a kind of imaginative con job making people think they had understood something complex when in fact one came away understanding nothing at all, but having enjoyed a good story and some beautiful but empty analogies.
- tarboreus 6y ago
  I really don't think it's empty, though if you think it's actually going to teach you an algorithm, then yes, it's empty in that sense.
  - ameliaquining 6y ago
    I think there's a reasonable case to be made that the understanding it imparts to the audience is entirely illusory. See, e.g., https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/408971325 https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/408971325 I mean, I enjoyed it as a young student too! But we should be honest with ourselves about the truth value of the history-of-science stuff in there.
    - escape_goat 6y ago
      > It feels as though Stoppard read James Gleick's Chaos (or a similar popular text), misunderstood it, forgot half of it, and then wrote the play on this basis of what remained. I feel seen.
      - gleick 6y ago
        If I might offer a different view, he did read Chaos, understood it well, and wrote a masterpiece that connects different strands of science to each other and to broader themes of culture and history. There’s no accounting for taste, and if you don’t like the play, no one can make you, but on the science he is always correct. If you’re interested in knowing more, I recommend Hermione Lee’s deep take on Arcadia in her new biography, Tom Stoppard: A Life.
initramfs 6y ago
This reminds me of Jackson Pollock's use (or unwitting use) of fractals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock#Fractal_computer_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock#Fractal_comput... The attempt to apply science to a plot a story or theme of art reminds me of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_affair At the very least, it shows an appreciation for The Two Cultures. It's not possible to reconcile certain generalizations about science and art- that is, one can write about science, but it's not easy to make accurate claims without being an expert, and vice versa- one can try to write a poetry from the perspective of a doctor, but it might sound like bad poetry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKpYBStDLVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKpYBStDLVA Of course there are some really talented writers and scientists.
eszed 6y ago
I had the immense privilege, for a few years, of teaching this play to classes of university students. (I'm still somewhat proud of the lecture I devised, with maths and pictures, illustrating iteration -- and of the gasps it invariably got when the graphs got colored in, and the Mandelbrot Set leapt off the screen in all its infinite colourful delight.) Reading and understanding the play then spring-boarded the individual research project and paper that these students were required to write. What I appreciated most about Arcadia was that it provided an almost infinite scope for students to bring their own interests to bear. The only rule was that whatever they did had to, in some way, give a reader a deeper understanding of the play, and/or the world(s) in which it was set. Some highlights: - The fashion-design student who did a deep dive into early-nineteenth century clothing trends, and explained why Lady Croom should be wearing this in the first act, but that in the second. She got extra marks for submitting swatches she'd hand-stitched to illustrate some kind of revolutionary technique that reached England around that time. - The "edgy" students who wanted to write something about Sex. I think they got excited about the thought that I'd shoot them down. In the end they usually wrote fairly boring papers about adultery rates, or sexual education. - A gun nut (I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he stormed the Capitol, or went off-grid and ended up being besieged by the FBI; you know the type), who wrote a creepy-but-fascinating paper about the ballistic properties of dueling pistols, and the expected survival rates of duels conducted at 7 paces, 10 paces, 12 paces, and so forth. - The "non-traditional" (read, slightly older) student who ran her own franchised dog-walking and training business -- I'm pretty sure she made a lot more money than I did, and really hope that Wag, and the like, didn't drive her out of business -- who researched how hunting dogs were used and trained in the early 19th century. - Biology majors who wrote about various aspects of population dynamics, and either confirmed or dismantled Valentine's assumption that game books were a valid source of data. After a while I started giving them (anonymized) former students' papers with the opposite view-point to critique. - LOTS of comp-sci and maths majors (I think either their professors or previous generations of students took to recommending my class) to whom my direction in tutorials invariably reversed Septimus: I'm not going to "give this an alpha in blind faith", though I'm sure your equations / program checks out. Now, explain it in words so a Humanities guy like me can understand. Arcadia is my favourite play, too.
- imrehg 6y ago
rpmuller 6y ago
If I remember correctly, Stoppard was an artist in residence at Caltech while he was writing Arcadia.
kkylin 6y ago
I'd forgotten the (really great) line "You cannot stir things apart." But sometimes you can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuKNWGxw9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuKNWGxw9c

45 points by diaphanous 6y ago

My favorite play since high school.

I just got my copy off the shelf & will have to re-read it. Is there a production available online that someone would recommend?

dotsam 6y ago
There is an audio recording by L.A. Theatre Works that you can listen to here https://beta.prx.org/stories/43614 https://beta.prx.org/stories/43614 and https://beta.prx.org/stories/43844 https://beta.prx.org/stories/43844
- eszed 6y ago
  There's a brilliant theatrical moment that neither reading nor listening to this play can ever quite re-create. In the final act, while characters from both time-periods are sharing the stage, Augustus/Gus (the younger brother in both time-periods, played by the same actor) comes in the door, and for a moment you don't know which century he's in. This play is one of my go-tos for an example of what theatre can do that film and television cannot. Because theatre depends on the audience's imagination to create its reality (more so, or at least differently, than film), more than one reality can be simultaneously present, and time and space and distance can be collapsed.
  - kkylin 6y ago
    I've never had the chance to see it, and I really would like to. I suppose when things return to "normal"...
- kkylin 6y ago
  Cool, thanks!

SpaceManNabs 6y ago

Arcadia is amazing. I commented about it on HN years ago, and it seems to be quite popular among this crowd for good reason.

scandox 6y ago

I saw this at its first run at The National Theatre in 1993. I certainly enjoyed it a lot but even at fifteen my feeling was that it was a kind of imaginative con job making people think they had understood something complex when in fact one came away understanding nothing at all, but having enjoyed a good story and some beautiful but empty analogies.

tarboreus 6y ago
I really don't think it's empty, though if you think it's actually going to teach you an algorithm, then yes, it's empty in that sense.
- ameliaquining 6y ago
  I think there's a reasonable case to be made that the understanding it imparts to the audience is entirely illusory. See, e.g., https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/408971325 https://www.goodreads.com/review/show/408971325 I mean, I enjoyed it as a young student too! But we should be honest with ourselves about the truth value of the history-of-science stuff in there.
  - escape_goat 6y ago
    > It feels as though Stoppard read James Gleick's Chaos (or a similar popular text), misunderstood it, forgot half of it, and then wrote the play on this basis of what remained. I feel seen.
    - gleick 6y ago
      If I might offer a different view, he did read Chaos, understood it well, and wrote a masterpiece that connects different strands of science to each other and to broader themes of culture and history. There’s no accounting for taste, and if you don’t like the play, no one can make you, but on the science he is always correct. If you’re interested in knowing more, I recommend Hermione Lee’s deep take on Arcadia in her new biography, Tom Stoppard: A Life.

initramfs 6y ago

This reminds me of Jackson Pollock's use (or unwitting use) of fractals: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock#Fractal_computer_analysis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Pollock#Fractal_comput... The attempt to apply science to a plot a story or theme of art reminds me of the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_affair https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_affair At the very least, it shows an appreciation for The Two Cultures. It's not possible to reconcile certain generalizations about science and art- that is, one can write about science, but it's not easy to make accurate claims without being an expert, and vice versa- one can try to write a poetry from the perspective of a doctor, but it might sound like bad poetry: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKpYBStDLVA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKpYBStDLVA Of course there are some really talented writers and scientists.

eszed 6y ago

I had the immense privilege, for a few years, of teaching this play to classes of university students. (I'm still somewhat proud of the lecture I devised, with maths and pictures, illustrating iteration -- and of the gasps it invariably got when the graphs got colored in, and the Mandelbrot Set leapt off the screen in all its infinite colourful delight.) Reading and understanding the play then spring-boarded the individual research project and paper that these students were required to write. What I appreciated most about Arcadia was that it provided an almost infinite scope for students to bring their own interests to bear. The only rule was that whatever they did had to, in some way, give a reader a deeper understanding of the play, and/or the world(s) in which it was set. Some highlights: - The fashion-design student who did a deep dive into early-nineteenth century clothing trends, and explained why Lady Croom should be wearing this in the first act, but that in the second. She got extra marks for submitting swatches she'd hand-stitched to illustrate some kind of revolutionary technique that reached England around that time. - The "edgy" students who wanted to write something about Sex. I think they got excited about the thought that I'd shoot them down. In the end they usually wrote fairly boring papers about adultery rates, or sexual education. - A gun nut (I wouldn't be surprised to learn that he stormed the Capitol, or went off-grid and ended up being besieged by the FBI; you know the type), who wrote a creepy-but-fascinating paper about the ballistic properties of dueling pistols, and the expected survival rates of duels conducted at 7 paces, 10 paces, 12 paces, and so forth. - The "non-traditional" (read, slightly older) student who ran her own franchised dog-walking and training business -- I'm pretty sure she made a lot more money than I did, and really hope that Wag, and the like, didn't drive her out of business -- who researched how hunting dogs were used and trained in the early 19th century. - Biology majors who wrote about various aspects of population dynamics, and either confirmed or dismantled Valentine's assumption that game books were a valid source of data. After a while I started giving them (anonymized) former students' papers with the opposite view-point to critique. - LOTS of comp-sci and maths majors (I think either their professors or previous generations of students took to recommending my class) to whom my direction in tutorials invariably reversed Septimus: I'm not going to "give this an alpha in blind faith", though I'm sure your equations / program checks out. Now, explain it in words so a Humanities guy like me can understand. Arcadia is my favourite play, too.

imrehg 6y ago

rpmuller 6y ago

If I remember correctly, Stoppard was an artist in residence at Caltech while he was writing Arcadia.

kkylin 6y ago

I'd forgotten the (really great) line "You cannot stir things apart." But sometimes you can: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuKNWGxw9c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMuKNWGxw9c