6 ms·

> But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most

> But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most of the population is not made of highly motivated self-starters, despite what every job posting looks for. I support UBI and see no problem with people "slacking" all day. Like you say, society is not made up of highly motivated self-starters. Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary?

hahahahe 6y ago
Because they get bored and may do more harm than good. See affluenza.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Well the often cited (and easy to believe) weed and video games wouldn't be causing any harm. In fact you could argue that being a "fan" would help support creators, even if just in spirit.
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
> Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary? Perhaps it will. It hasn't made it completely unnecessary yet, though. Somebody who can't work? I'm all for helping them. Someone who won't? Let them mooch off of someone that is not the taxpayer.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  I see giving people their freedom as being worth more than forcing them to work. Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. Consider that an artifact of bootstrapping humanity through the industrial revolution.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    > Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. I do not take automation as a given, because it is not yet able to produce all that we want. You're living in a dream world. That dream may one day be a reality; that day is not yet here. > No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Automation and globalization have already decimated our workforce. It’s a reality we live in today. > I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either. If you support UBI you will also have the option to not work (and therefore pay no taxes). Really though unless you’re a billionaire I don’t think you have anything to worry about.
jandrese 6y ago
People without a purpose in life are highly susceptible to depression and self destructive behaviors. I don't like forcing people into bullshit jobs, but at least it gets them out of the house and interacting with other people.
- heavenlyblue 6y ago
  Work does not need to be the purpose in life either.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  Having to work to survive is far more depressing than knowing I'm free to do as I please. Death by ennui is a straw man and anyone living near subsistence levels will tell you as much.
  - jandrese 6y ago
    It may be selection bias but when I did community service in coal country WV there seemed to be only two kinds of people in those forsaken towns. Depressed or self destructive. No opportunity and no escape is a hell of a combo. They weren’t starving, but they didn’t have money for much of anything else so their house was decaying around them (our job was fixing up the houses) along with the rest of their lives. This was back in the 90’s. I suspect those towns have been lost to opioids and meth now.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Those people would have benefited from UBI for sure. They are an example of people who’s jobs we’re lost to modernization. There’s nothing more “destructive” then spending your life working to survive. It’s literally wasting the most valuable thing you have. Putting those guys back in a coal mine so we don’t have to see them is not a solution.

hahahahe 6y ago

Because they get bored and may do more harm than good. See affluenza.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
Well the often cited (and easy to believe) weed and video games wouldn't be causing any harm. In fact you could argue that being a "fan" would help support creators, even if just in spirit.

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

> Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary? Perhaps it will. It hasn't made it completely unnecessary yet, though. Somebody who can't work? I'm all for helping them. Someone who won't? Let them mooch off of someone that is not the taxpayer.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
I see giving people their freedom as being worth more than forcing them to work. Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. Consider that an artifact of bootstrapping humanity through the industrial revolution.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  > Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. I do not take automation as a given, because it is not yet able to produce all that we want. You're living in a dream world. That dream may one day be a reality; that day is not yet here. > No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Automation and globalization have already decimated our workforce. It’s a reality we live in today. > I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either. If you support UBI you will also have the option to not work (and therefore pay no taxes). Really though unless you’re a billionaire I don’t think you have anything to worry about.

jandrese 6y ago

People without a purpose in life are highly susceptible to depression and self destructive behaviors. I don't like forcing people into bullshit jobs, but at least it gets them out of the house and interacting with other people.

heavenlyblue 6y ago
Work does not need to be the purpose in life either.
solosoyokaze 6y ago
Having to work to survive is far more depressing than knowing I'm free to do as I please. Death by ennui is a straw man and anyone living near subsistence levels will tell you as much.
- jandrese 6y ago
  It may be selection bias but when I did community service in coal country WV there seemed to be only two kinds of people in those forsaken towns. Depressed or self destructive. No opportunity and no escape is a hell of a combo. They weren’t starving, but they didn’t have money for much of anything else so their house was decaying around them (our job was fixing up the houses) along with the rest of their lives. This was back in the 90’s. I suspect those towns have been lost to opioids and meth now.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Those people would have benefited from UBI for sure. They are an example of people who’s jobs we’re lost to modernization. There’s nothing more “destructive” then spending your life working to survive. It’s literally wasting the most valuable thing you have. Putting those guys back in a coal mine so we don’t have to see them is not a solution.