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That’s a pretty weak argument. You are saying that I should invest time and effort into a book to understand it, but also that the purpose of literature is not

That’s a pretty weak argument. You are saying that I should invest time and effort into a book to understand it, but also that the purpose of literature is not information. What is there to understand then, if not information? I always hear the author is making a point about life, but why water it down in hundreds of extra pages instead of saying it directly? The only thing I can think is that the story helps us connect with the author’s point and learn from it better. It can influence and persuade in a way that just laying out arguments can’t, because it stirs up emotion in the reader. Is that what you are trying to say? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something like that from a book, but it sounds enjoyable. Maybe I’ll give it another shot sometime.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
Have you ever enjoyed a meal? A movie? Done anything at all other than for mindless entertainment or gathering information? Admired a sunset or bought flowers? Literature is an art form. It is almost by definition not practical.
- brokencode 6y ago
  Uh, of course I’ve enjoyed those things. And I’ve enjoyed many books too. I’m saying that the idea of critical reading of books seems pointless to me, because I see them only as entertainment. I also don’t really enjoy puzzles, so if a book is a puzzle to figure out, and people enjoy the act of decoding them for its own sake, then I can see what I’m missing. I do like solving technical problems, and that’s why I’m a programmer, but I don’t really get much enjoyment from solving problems that wouldn’t benefit me or others to solve.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    There’s a pretty big difference between art and entertainment. Paradise Lost and Harry Potter aren’t exactly in the same category.
    - brokencode 6y ago
      Sure, but is your argument that I should enjoy great art simply because it’s considered great? Surely there are reasons even for art.
ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
You’re trying to create a sort of virtual reality, that’s why you need so much world-building. For example, the idea in ”Uncle Tom’s Cabin” is to get the reader to live the life of a slave. The best way to achieve that in writing is details, so the reader can make a picture in their heads. Some people are better than others in making these pictures. Movies are trying to achieve a similar effect, but it’s much easier there. It is definitely about making an emotional connection. To persuade someone from that angle, think of it like this: a lot of people who were not abolitionists changed their minds after reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin. If it wasn’t for that book, we would not be living in our modern world. You need to make someone feel the horrors of slavery in order to get them to want to do something about it. That the brain is able to actually be able to go into this alternate reality just with words on papers is actually pretty crazy but definitely valuable. Plus, a book doesn’t have to just have a single point. Look at “Brothers Karamazov”. There also wouldn’t be a modern world if it wasn’t for that book. That’s not something you can do with anything other than art. To change someone’s mind. To influence someone...You can’t do that sort of societal change with a list article or a summary or even an essay. I don’t think it’s a frivolous thing. It’s actually the most valuable and important work you can do if you want to change the world for the better.
- brokencode 6y ago
  I think that’s a good explanation. Literature can help persuade emotionally when people are otherwise not willing to change their mind based on a purely rational argument. But what if you already agree with the author to begin with? Then it would seem less profound. Maybe that’s why I haven’t experienced any revelations yet from literature. Perhaps I can find a great piece of literature I disagree with and it would leave me with a greater appreciation for art.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
    you can inspire someone to become more active in the support of a cause, throw more kindling into their fire, so to speak. Try reading Lolita by Nabokov.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

ceilingcorner 6y ago

Have you ever enjoyed a meal? A movie? Done anything at all other than for mindless entertainment or gathering information? Admired a sunset or bought flowers? Literature is an art form. It is almost by definition not practical.

brokencode 6y ago
Uh, of course I’ve enjoyed those things. And I’ve enjoyed many books too. I’m saying that the idea of critical reading of books seems pointless to me, because I see them only as entertainment. I also don’t really enjoy puzzles, so if a book is a puzzle to figure out, and people enjoy the act of decoding them for its own sake, then I can see what I’m missing. I do like solving technical problems, and that’s why I’m a programmer, but I don’t really get much enjoyment from solving problems that wouldn’t benefit me or others to solve.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  There’s a pretty big difference between art and entertainment. Paradise Lost and Harry Potter aren’t exactly in the same category.
  - brokencode 6y ago
    Sure, but is your argument that I should enjoy great art simply because it’s considered great? Surely there are reasons even for art.

ulisesrmzroche 6y ago

You’re trying to create a sort of virtual reality, that’s why you need so much world-building. For example, the idea in ”Uncle Tom’s Cabin” is to get the reader to live the life of a slave. The best way to achieve that in writing is details, so the reader can make a picture in their heads. Some people are better than others in making these pictures. Movies are trying to achieve a similar effect, but it’s much easier there. It is definitely about making an emotional connection. To persuade someone from that angle, think of it like this: a lot of people who were not abolitionists changed their minds after reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin. If it wasn’t for that book, we would not be living in our modern world. You need to make someone feel the horrors of slavery in order to get them to want to do something about it. That the brain is able to actually be able to go into this alternate reality just with words on papers is actually pretty crazy but definitely valuable. Plus, a book doesn’t have to just have a single point. Look at “Brothers Karamazov”. There also wouldn’t be a modern world if it wasn’t for that book. That’s not something you can do with anything other than art. To change someone’s mind. To influence someone...You can’t do that sort of societal change with a list article or a summary or even an essay. I don’t think it’s a frivolous thing. It’s actually the most valuable and important work you can do if you want to change the world for the better.

brokencode 6y ago
I think that’s a good explanation. Literature can help persuade emotionally when people are otherwise not willing to change their mind based on a purely rational argument. But what if you already agree with the author to begin with? Then it would seem less profound. Maybe that’s why I haven’t experienced any revelations yet from literature. Perhaps I can find a great piece of literature I disagree with and it would leave me with a greater appreciation for art.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
  you can inspire someone to become more active in the support of a cause, throw more kindling into their fire, so to speak. Try reading Lolita by Nabokov.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago