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They are basically the counterexample for universal basic income.

by ampdepolymerase 6y ago

hahahahe 6y ago
Exactly. Contrast that with another oil rich country that did something: Norway.
- ampdepolymerase 6y ago
  Norway's scale of UBI is a lot less than the oil rich Arabic states' though. Those states may not have much civil liberties but material quality of life is undeniably not bad for most locals.
  - Grustaf 6y ago
    Norway doesn't have UBI.
jandrese 6y ago
I don't think most proponents of UBI are suggesting we give people enough money to push them into the "rich asshole" level of wealth. But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most of the population is not made of highly motivated self-starters, despite what every job posting looks for.
- solosoyokaze 6y ago
  > But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most of the population is not made of highly motivated self-starters, despite what every job posting looks for. I support UBI and see no problem with people "slacking" all day. Like you say, society is not made up of highly motivated self-starters. Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary?
  - hahahahe 6y ago
    Because they get bored and may do more harm than good. See affluenza.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      Well the often cited (and easy to believe) weed and video games wouldn't be causing any harm. In fact you could argue that being a "fan" would help support creators, even if just in spirit.
  - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
    > Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary? Perhaps it will. It hasn't made it completely unnecessary yet, though. Somebody who can't work? I'm all for helping them. Someone who won't? Let them mooch off of someone that is not the taxpayer.
    - solosoyokaze 6y ago
      I see giving people their freedom as being worth more than forcing them to work. Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. Consider that an artifact of bootstrapping humanity through the industrial revolution.
      - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
        > Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. I do not take automation as a given, because it is not yet able to produce all that we want. You're living in a dream world. That dream may one day be a reality; that day is not yet here. > No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either.
        solosoyokaze 6y ago
- GreenWatermelon 6y ago
  This assumes it's a proble and not a symptom of a problem. If someone takes the little money they get for food and necessaties and spends them on drugs, they are clearly on need of help and we as a society should help them combat that destructive behaviour, not shun them. If someone is happy enough with basic food and shelter, no luxuries, is it a problem if they just sit around? isn't this better than fostering a dangerous criminal with disdain for society, thus endangering everyone in the local community? if someone wants more (e.g. a Gaming PC) then they will have to work for it. Food and shelters should be considered human rights by virtue of existence. We will flourish more as a species if we move away from that hyper-individualist view from which we see the world, to a kinder, community-oriented view. Let's not be assholes. If I get 100k a year, losing 1000k for another person is no problem, assuming I'm not a greedy bastard with a hardon for cash.

They are basically the counterexample for universal basic income.

hahahahe 6y ago

Exactly. Contrast that with another oil rich country that did something: Norway.

ampdepolymerase 6y ago
Norway's scale of UBI is a lot less than the oil rich Arabic states' though. Those states may not have much civil liberties but material quality of life is undeniably not bad for most locals.
- Grustaf 6y ago
  Norway doesn't have UBI.

jandrese 6y ago

I don't think most proponents of UBI are suggesting we give people enough money to push them into the "rich asshole" level of wealth. But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most of the population is not made of highly motivated self-starters, despite what every job posting looks for.

solosoyokaze 6y ago
> But I do agree that UBI proponents have to come up with an argument against the "pay people just enough to do drugs and play videogames all day" example. Most of the population is not made of highly motivated self-starters, despite what every job posting looks for. I support UBI and see no problem with people "slacking" all day. Like you say, society is not made up of highly motivated self-starters. Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary?
- hahahahe 6y ago
  Because they get bored and may do more harm than good. See affluenza.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    Well the often cited (and easy to believe) weed and video games wouldn't be causing any harm. In fact you could argue that being a "fan" would help support creators, even if just in spirit.
- AnimalMuppet 6y ago
  > Why force those people to work when automation will make it completely unnecessary? Perhaps it will. It hasn't made it completely unnecessary yet, though. Somebody who can't work? I'm all for helping them. Someone who won't? Let them mooch off of someone that is not the taxpayer.
  - solosoyokaze 6y ago
    I see giving people their freedom as being worth more than forcing them to work. Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. Consider that an artifact of bootstrapping humanity through the industrial revolution.
    - AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      > Take automation as a given. It's been a trend for decades. I do not take automation as a given, because it is not yet able to produce all that we want. You're living in a dream world. That dream may one day be a reality; that day is not yet here. > No one consented to be born into a system where they are enslaved by capital holders. I did not consent to be taxed to pay for those who choose not to work, either.
      - solosoyokaze 6y ago
GreenWatermelon 6y ago
This assumes it's a proble and not a symptom of a problem. If someone takes the little money they get for food and necessaties and spends them on drugs, they are clearly on need of help and we as a society should help them combat that destructive behaviour, not shun them. If someone is happy enough with basic food and shelter, no luxuries, is it a problem if they just sit around? isn't this better than fostering a dangerous criminal with disdain for society, thus endangering everyone in the local community? if someone wants more (e.g. a Gaming PC) then they will have to work for it. Food and shelters should be considered human rights by virtue of existence. We will flourish more as a species if we move away from that hyper-individualist view from which we see the world, to a kinder, community-oriented view. Let's not be assholes. If I get 100k a year, losing 1000k for another person is no problem, assuming I'm not a greedy bastard with a hardon for cash.