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Am I the only one who thinks most novels are 90% fluff? Like, they can certainly be entertaining, but the idea of the author making an argument that you need to

Am I the only one who thinks most novels are 90% fluff? Like, they can certainly be entertaining, but the idea of the author making an argument that you need to decode and become enlightened by sits with me the wrong way. Why not just come out and say your points in a condensed form without the story around it? Does it improve learning to have to decode information from a novel? Does it stick with you better, or make a more relatable case? The same is true for most non fiction books. Endless stories and examples for something you could have said in 10 pages. This is why I prefer articles, blog posts, etc. I want to learn, but don’t want to spend hours reading fluff. I enjoy TV shows for entertainment, and don’t feel the need to decode them, because I don’t believe there would be anything in there that isn’t the 50th variation of something I’ve heard before. Am I missing out on incredible revelations? Upon reading a great book, I’ve never felt enlightened, even when prodded to analyze it in school. Maybe I haven’t tried hard enough, or maybe the point is lost on me, but it just doesn’t seem as worthwhile as so many people claim.

ceilingcorner 6y ago
If you are reading literature, real literature, purely for information, I'm afraid you've lost the plot somewhere. As with everything worthwhile in life, good literature is work. Don't expect to pick up a classic novel and understand it immediately.
- brokencode 6y ago
  That’s a pretty weak argument. You are saying that I should invest time and effort into a book to understand it, but also that the purpose of literature is not information. What is there to understand then, if not information? I always hear the author is making a point about life, but why water it down in hundreds of extra pages instead of saying it directly? The only thing I can think is that the story helps us connect with the author’s point and learn from it better. It can influence and persuade in a way that just laying out arguments can’t, because it stirs up emotion in the reader. Is that what you are trying to say? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something like that from a book, but it sounds enjoyable. Maybe I’ll give it another shot sometime.
  - ceilingcorner 6y ago
    Have you ever enjoyed a meal? A movie? Done anything at all other than for mindless entertainment or gathering information? Admired a sunset or bought flowers? Literature is an art form. It is almost by definition not practical.
    - brokencode 6y ago
      Uh, of course I’ve enjoyed those things. And I’ve enjoyed many books too. I’m saying that the idea of critical reading of books seems pointless to me, because I see them only as entertainment. I also don’t really enjoy puzzles, so if a book is a puzzle to figure out, and people enjoy the act of decoding them for its own sake, then I can see what I’m missing. I do like solving technical problems, and that’s why I’m a programmer, but I don’t really get much enjoyment from solving problems that wouldn’t benefit me or others to solve.
      - ceilingcorner 6y ago
        There’s a pretty big difference between art and entertainment. Paradise Lost and Harry Potter aren’t exactly in the same category.
        brokencode 6y ago
        Sure, but is your argument that I should enjoy great art simply because it’s considered great? Surely there are reasons even for art.
  - ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
    You’re trying to create a sort of virtual reality, that’s why you need so much world-building. For example, the idea in ”Uncle Tom’s Cabin” is to get the reader to live the life of a slave. The best way to achieve that in writing is details, so the reader can make a picture in their heads. Some people are better than others in making these pictures. Movies are trying to achieve a similar effect, but it’s much easier there. It is definitely about making an emotional connection. To persuade someone from that angle, think of it like this: a lot of people who were not abolitionists changed their minds after reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin. If it wasn’t for that book, we would not be living in our modern world. You need to make someone feel the horrors of slavery in order to get them to want to do something about it. That the brain is able to actually be able to go into this alternate reality just with words on papers is actually pretty crazy but definitely valuable. Plus, a book doesn’t have to just have a single point. Look at “Brothers Karamazov”. There also wouldn’t be a modern world if it wasn’t for that book. That’s not something you can do with anything other than art. To change someone’s mind. To influence someone...You can’t do that sort of societal change with a list article or a summary or even an essay. I don’t think it’s a frivolous thing. It’s actually the most valuable and important work you can do if you want to change the world for the better.
gshubert17 6y ago
Sometimes the experiences in a novel are more memorable than the arguments. Or the combination of characters, experiences, and information is more effective at conveying what the author wants.

ceilingcorner 6y ago

If you are reading literature, real literature, purely for information, I'm afraid you've lost the plot somewhere. As with everything worthwhile in life, good literature is work. Don't expect to pick up a classic novel and understand it immediately.

brokencode 6y ago
That’s a pretty weak argument. You are saying that I should invest time and effort into a book to understand it, but also that the purpose of literature is not information. What is there to understand then, if not information? I always hear the author is making a point about life, but why water it down in hundreds of extra pages instead of saying it directly? The only thing I can think is that the story helps us connect with the author’s point and learn from it better. It can influence and persuade in a way that just laying out arguments can’t, because it stirs up emotion in the reader. Is that what you are trying to say? I can’t say that I’ve ever experienced something like that from a book, but it sounds enjoyable. Maybe I’ll give it another shot sometime.
- ceilingcorner 6y ago
  Have you ever enjoyed a meal? A movie? Done anything at all other than for mindless entertainment or gathering information? Admired a sunset or bought flowers? Literature is an art form. It is almost by definition not practical.
  - brokencode 6y ago
    Uh, of course I’ve enjoyed those things. And I’ve enjoyed many books too. I’m saying that the idea of critical reading of books seems pointless to me, because I see them only as entertainment. I also don’t really enjoy puzzles, so if a book is a puzzle to figure out, and people enjoy the act of decoding them for its own sake, then I can see what I’m missing. I do like solving technical problems, and that’s why I’m a programmer, but I don’t really get much enjoyment from solving problems that wouldn’t benefit me or others to solve.
    - ceilingcorner 6y ago
      There’s a pretty big difference between art and entertainment. Paradise Lost and Harry Potter aren’t exactly in the same category.
      - brokencode 6y ago
        Sure, but is your argument that I should enjoy great art simply because it’s considered great? Surely there are reasons even for art.
- ulisesrmzroche 6y ago
  You’re trying to create a sort of virtual reality, that’s why you need so much world-building. For example, the idea in ”Uncle Tom’s Cabin” is to get the reader to live the life of a slave. The best way to achieve that in writing is details, so the reader can make a picture in their heads. Some people are better than others in making these pictures. Movies are trying to achieve a similar effect, but it’s much easier there. It is definitely about making an emotional connection. To persuade someone from that angle, think of it like this: a lot of people who were not abolitionists changed their minds after reading Uncle Tom’s Cabin. If it wasn’t for that book, we would not be living in our modern world. You need to make someone feel the horrors of slavery in order to get them to want to do something about it. That the brain is able to actually be able to go into this alternate reality just with words on papers is actually pretty crazy but definitely valuable. Plus, a book doesn’t have to just have a single point. Look at “Brothers Karamazov”. There also wouldn’t be a modern world if it wasn’t for that book. That’s not something you can do with anything other than art. To change someone’s mind. To influence someone...You can’t do that sort of societal change with a list article or a summary or even an essay. I don’t think it’s a frivolous thing. It’s actually the most valuable and important work you can do if you want to change the world for the better.

gshubert17 6y ago

Sometimes the experiences in a novel are more memorable than the arguments. Or the combination of characters, experiences, and information is more effective at conveying what the author wants.