11 ms·

I thought that until I realised Apple also have a billion dollar ads business

sodality2 6y ago
The problem is Apple relies on hardware sales. FB's entire business from the top down is ad money. And source for a billion dollar ad business? That sounds way higher than my initial impression. (And google paying to be the default SE is not advertising imo)
- rorykoehler 6y ago
  https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-revenue/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-revenue/
  - whynaut 6y ago
    Well.. > Apple’s most recent earnings report revealed that it earned $12.51B from Services in calendar Q3/fiscal Q4, though there is no breakdown on how much of this comes from ad revenue. Notice the 'could's: > Samik Chatterjee argued the company could leverage the millions of users who search its App Store and Safari browser daily to generate the stellar growth seen by Facebook and Google in recent years. > he launch of Apple TV+, coupled with Apple Inc’s foray into digital services, could help the company increase its income from advertising by more than five fold to $11 billion annually This article is literally just speculation. Actually, it's quoting someone's speculation. > The report seems highly speculative…
  - kergonath 6y ago
    There’s a lot of guesswork there. It’s even worse than that actually, they assume that their advertising operation will grow as Facebook’s. It is extremely implausible under current conditions (no tracking and ads limited to the stores). So yeah, if Apple were Facebook, ads would be important to them. And even the wildest estimates put it far short on the actual money maker, which is hardware sales. When push comes to shove, if they have to choose between ad and devices, they won’t hesitate long.
    - rorykoehler 6y ago
      I saw a few articles when I searched from the previous year which also projected growth to the $2b number the next year but as Apple bundles it all in services who knows?
  - katbyte 6y ago
    At 2 billion it’s < 1% their revenue (265b)
    - rorykoehler 6y ago
      Yes I'm hoping that should be enough to dampen their ambitions
- somjeed 6y ago
  Here's a nice source of revenue from google ($9 billion/year): https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-reportedly-pays-apple-9-billion-remain-iphone-000053314.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-reportedly-pays-apple-...
nicoburns 6y ago
Does Apple's ad business track users though? It seems to me that an ad business shouldn't need to in order to be effective.
- mektrik 6y ago
  It does - it provides advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts.
  - newscracker 6y ago
    Please provide links or citations showing what information about a user is shared with advertiser.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    This is honestly pretty reasonable. Apple already knows which apps I download and this is made fairly clear (you're logged into the App Store and your account lists all apps you obtained). Apple also knows which App Store ads I saw given that their server sent them to me in the first place. The ads are (at least for now) limited to the App Store and don't carry over across the web or other Apple apps. Thus I don't see the problem with Apple using the data they've already got to provide anonymized conversion metrics to app developers.
  - zepto 6y ago
    > advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts. No it doesn’t. It provides aggregate statistics on downloads, just like any analytics server. No data on users is shared.
singhrac 6y ago
I see what you mean, but iPhone says are something like 150x that. If privacy concerns weaken even 1%, that wouldn't be worth it. Maybe that's unlikely, I'm not sure.
zepto 6y ago
An ad business that doesn’t rely on accumulating user data for targeting. Ads do not always mean user tracking.
- throw_away892 6y ago
  This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.
  - zepto 6y ago
    Not really. Google built a super successful ad business on search terms alone, long before they got into user tracking. Do you have any evidence that Apple tracks users for their ad business - which only sells ads for apps when users search for them?
    - throw_away892 6y ago
      Check their ad business brief - https://searchads.apple.com/ https://searchads.apple.com/ As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/apple-iphone-tracking-heres-how-to-turn-it-off/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/appl...
      - zepto 6y ago
        > As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones That isn’t evidence of Apple tracking anything. IDFA is used by Facebook and ad-tech companies. Apple are switching IDFA to be Opt-In rather than opt out. That’s what Facebook is complaining about.
        throw_away892 6y ago
        > IDFA The mechanism for tracking users is already present. What more proof do you need? Even if you manage to toggle 3rd parties out of your phone. You cannot toggle the Apple out of it.

The problem is Apple relies on hardware sales. FB's entire business from the top down is ad money. And source for a billion dollar ad business? That sounds way higher than my initial impression. (And google paying to be the default SE is not advertising imo)

rorykoehler 6y ago
https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-revenue/ https://9to5mac.com/2019/11/15/apple-ad-revenue/
- whynaut 6y ago
  Well.. > Apple’s most recent earnings report revealed that it earned $12.51B from Services in calendar Q3/fiscal Q4, though there is no breakdown on how much of this comes from ad revenue. Notice the 'could's: > Samik Chatterjee argued the company could leverage the millions of users who search its App Store and Safari browser daily to generate the stellar growth seen by Facebook and Google in recent years. > he launch of Apple TV+, coupled with Apple Inc’s foray into digital services, could help the company increase its income from advertising by more than five fold to $11 billion annually This article is literally just speculation. Actually, it's quoting someone's speculation. > The report seems highly speculative…
- kergonath 6y ago
  There’s a lot of guesswork there. It’s even worse than that actually, they assume that their advertising operation will grow as Facebook’s. It is extremely implausible under current conditions (no tracking and ads limited to the stores). So yeah, if Apple were Facebook, ads would be important to them. And even the wildest estimates put it far short on the actual money maker, which is hardware sales. When push comes to shove, if they have to choose between ad and devices, they won’t hesitate long.
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    I saw a few articles when I searched from the previous year which also projected growth to the $2b number the next year but as Apple bundles it all in services who knows?
- katbyte 6y ago
  At 2 billion it’s < 1% their revenue (265b)
  - rorykoehler 6y ago
    Yes I'm hoping that should be enough to dampen their ambitions
somjeed 6y ago
Here's a nice source of revenue from google ($9 billion/year): https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-reportedly-pays-apple-9-billion-remain-iphone-000053314.html https://finance.yahoo.com/news/google-reportedly-pays-apple-...

nicoburns 6y ago

Does Apple's ad business track users though? It seems to me that an ad business shouldn't need to in order to be effective.

mektrik 6y ago
It does - it provides advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts.
- newscracker 6y ago
  Please provide links or citations showing what information about a user is shared with advertiser.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  This is honestly pretty reasonable. Apple already knows which apps I download and this is made fairly clear (you're logged into the App Store and your account lists all apps you obtained). Apple also knows which App Store ads I saw given that their server sent them to me in the first place. The ads are (at least for now) limited to the App Store and don't carry over across the web or other Apple apps. Thus I don't see the problem with Apple using the data they've already got to provide anonymized conversion metrics to app developers.
- zepto 6y ago
  > advertisers data on which users have downloaded their app after seeing specific adverts. No it doesn’t. It provides aggregate statistics on downloads, just like any analytics server. No data on users is shared.

singhrac 6y ago

I see what you mean, but iPhone says are something like 150x that. If privacy concerns weaken even 1%, that wouldn't be worth it. Maybe that's unlikely, I'm not sure.

zepto 6y ago

An ad business that doesn’t rely on accumulating user data for targeting. Ads do not always mean user tracking.

throw_away892 6y ago
This looks like simply naive thinking. Without evidence to backup your statement about Apple, everything about it breaks the cardinal rule of the ads business.
- zepto 6y ago
  Not really. Google built a super successful ad business on search terms alone, long before they got into user tracking. Do you have any evidence that Apple tracks users for their ad business - which only sells ads for apps when users search for them?
  - throw_away892 6y ago
    Check their ad business brief - https://searchads.apple.com/ https://searchads.apple.com/ As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/apple-iphone-tracking-heres-how-to-turn-it-off/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/kateoflahertyuk/2020/11/16/appl...
    - zepto 6y ago
      > As requested, evidence of tracking in iPhones That isn’t evidence of Apple tracking anything. IDFA is used by Facebook and ad-tech companies. Apple are switching IDFA to be Opt-In rather than opt out. That’s what Facebook is complaining about.
      - throw_away892 6y ago
        > IDFA The mechanism for tracking users is already present. What more proof do you need? Even if you manage to toggle 3rd parties out of your phone. You cannot toggle the Apple out of it.