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This is a mere eyewash to keep your votes in your pocket. If you really think Biden admin is going to have a concrete change in the middle East policy (regardin

This is a mere eyewash to keep your votes in your pocket. If you really think Biden admin is going to have a concrete change in the middle East policy (regarding arms sale, etc.) I have a bridge to sell to you.

duxup 6y ago
Middle East nations have at least since the Obama era largely been left to their own devices (more than in the past), and operate happily that way. They're not looking to the US or anyone for approval.
- hourislate 6y ago
  https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-president-how-obama-came-bomb-seven-countries-six-years-9753131.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-p... Almost six years later, Mr Obama has approved military operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and now Syria. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (BIJ) estimates the Obama administration has launched more than 390 drone strikes in five years across Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia – eight times as many approved during the entire Bush Presidency.
  - duxup 6y ago
    That doesn't seem to relate to what I said. Obama making decisions on his own doesn't have anything to do with middle east nation's interest in US approval for their own actions.
    - hn8788 6y ago
      Killing people in other countries because their government isn't doing enough to fight extremism doesn't sound like they've been "left to their own devices".
      - duxup 6y ago
        "left to their own devices" doesn't mean that the US (or anyone else) would be uninvolved in things. I'm addressing what those middle east nations choose to do and who they consult with, get 'approval' from / etc.
        Grustaf 6y ago
        > "left to their own devices" doesn't mean that the US (or anyone else) would be uninvolved in things. What? That's exactly what it means.
  - Shivetya 6y ago
    and less than a hundred days into his Presidency Biden is bombing the Middle East; a guy who claimed he would use military power responsibly and his supporters mocked Trump supporters that claimed otherwise. The simple fact is we have very little justification to criticize the actions of other nations when we cannot even go an Administration without attacking another nation.
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      1) what makes the bombing a non-responsible use of military power? 2) Why is the US not allowed to "attack[] another nation"? esp given it was a response to attacks on American/coalition personnel?
- the_reformation 6y ago
  The series of Arabic states opening diplomatic relations with Israel was definitely American-led.
  - duxup 6y ago
    Any influence /= as much influence as before / countries looking to the US when they take their own actions. As alliances shift in the middle east it's not surprising that Israel would be involved. Relations / tensions are pretty wild in the Middle East. I think 'unlikely' alliances are almost inevitable, and maybe not as unlikely as we think. There area lot of strangely conflicting incentives out there.
    - zikzak 6y ago
      Surely, some of it was also political theatre to give the US administration a win in the region (Mission Accomplished, all over again) in exchange for the sale of advanced weapons systems. Just my two cents.
      - duxup 6y ago
        Maybe but despite the fact that they might celebrate it... I really doubt the value of "hey someone opened up diplomatic relations with Israel" is all that valuable to a given US politician... same goes with the state that chose to do so. I think whatever horse trading happened behind the scenes was likely more valuable than PR.
        zikzak 6y ago
        I don't disagree on the reality, I am just saying that in my personal reading of various subreddits, forums, etc. I have seen countless posts and pundits saying what a great Job Trump and Kushner did on these agreements. It was clearly being used to show off their accomplishments in the region, real or not.
  - wavefunction 6y ago
    Two countries is a series? Can't really count Morocco or Sudan as 'Arabic states' unless you're really stretching that definition and it seems you are.
kgog 6y ago
> The Biden administration has paused arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates as it conducts a wider review of agreements worth billions of dollars made by the Trump administration, sources familiar with the matter told CNN Wednesday. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/us-pauses-saudi-uae-arms-sales/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/us-pauses-saudi-uae-...
Bud 6y ago
Um, merely declassifying this report already is a major change in US policy. Furthermore, Biden is reportedly refusing to even speak with MBS, as reported in the NY Times article about this: "Ahead of the report’s release, Mr. Biden spoke to King Salman of Saudi Arabia. Although the official White House description of the call did not say that the two men discussed the report, other officials said the purpose of the discussion was for Mr. Biden to explain why he was releasing the findings and outline the administration’s next steps. The administration has made clear that Mr. Biden will speak only to King Salman, his counterpart as head of state, and will not speak directly to the crown prince. Whether the new administration’s attempt to bypass the 35-year-old crown prince and deal only with his 84-year-old and often ailing father will succeed remains to be seen."
hourislate 6y ago
The Biden foreign policy so far is exactly what the Trump policy was. As a matter of fact I would bet it will escalate in violence. Where is the outrage? All the social media platforms are silent.
- arkitaip 6y ago
  He's only been in power for a month - what do you expect, a miracle?
  - Jasper_ 6y ago
    And in that month, Biden's already gave the thumbs up to bombing Syria, killing 17 people.
    - cmorgan31 6y ago
      So complain to Biden, no one is saying we shouldn’t stop bombing people in other countries. It’s also not a shock to anyone in the US that Biden is effectively a conservative to every other western nation. I didn’t put my hopes on him fixing things. I wanted the clown in chief to stop breaking things for four years. If Biden keeps breaking things I’ll vote him out too. I just won’t do it to the benefit of more far right demagogues.
      - mindslight 6y ago
        Exactly. I'm a libertarian who had never voted for a major party federal candidate and yet I found myself voting for the conservative option of Biden this time around. I want to go back to hating the government a normal amount. The military-industrial-surveillance complex is evil, but at least it has a vested interest to not wantonly kill half a million Americans.
        ALittleLight 6y ago
        I personally think Trump is dumb, indecent, and a liar - but it's not fair to suggest he's responsible for killing half a million Americans. The US seems to have had a somewhat typical response and outcome to the virus with fewer per capita deaths than Germany, France, UK, Spain, and others[1]. Surely all these countries weren't also run by regimes trying to kill their population. Trump's opponents didn't seem to be suggesting noticeably better strategies to deal with the virus and Democrat led states don't seem to be handling the virus much better than Republican led states [2]. 1 - https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 2 - https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality
newacct583 6y ago
Simply not lying to us is a very large step in the right direction, though. You don't have to be in the tank for the Biden administration to recognize that it was VERY BAD that the previous administration engaged in (or at least acceded to) a coverup of a state-sanctioned murder.
- objektif 6y ago
  Secret: Obama lied about a lot of things. https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/501365/ https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/501365/
dionian 6y ago
let's hope they dont screw anything up. we just started solidifying the Abraham accords, to the detriment of Iran and China especially.
LatteLazy 6y ago
Sadly I think you're right, there is no sign of a return to the Iran deal even, let alone an actual change of policy there. This is housekeeping at most.
- emilsedgh 6y ago
  As an Iranian (living in US) who follows this very very closely, you are wrong. There are many signs of Biden administration going back to the deal. They are both dancing around it but there's definitely been a policy change regarding Iran.
  - flyinglizard 6y ago
    What are your thoughts on the deal?
    - emilsedgh 6y ago
      It's a good deal for the whole world except for Saudi Arabia's regime, Israeli's hardliners, American Hawks and Iranian hardliners. For stability of the region, commerce, peace and moderate forces in all parties, it was a good deal. It wouldn't have resolved all the issues the world has with Iran, but the idea of having a "deal" in place that resolves all issues is childish. Eg can the US have a "deal" with Saudi in place to resolve all the regional and human rights issues with them? Of course not. But those who argue against the JCPOA claim the US could've had a "deal" with Iran that resolved all issues. It would've been used to rebuild some trust between both nations and help resolving other issues in long term.
      - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
        I just wanted to extend word that no matter how comments go on this website, there is a sizable fraction of the US that understand the deal was about creating an imperfect detente to limit the hardliners on various sides, to create space for progress. We'll see how things shake out, but I just wanted to say that there are plenty of people over here to see this in that way.

duxup 6y ago

Middle East nations have at least since the Obama era largely been left to their own devices (more than in the past), and operate happily that way. They're not looking to the US or anyone for approval.

hourislate 6y ago
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-president-how-obama-came-bomb-seven-countries-six-years-9753131.html https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/peace-p... Almost six years later, Mr Obama has approved military operations in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Somalia, Yemen, Libya and now Syria. The Bureau of Investigative Journalism (BIJ) estimates the Obama administration has launched more than 390 drone strikes in five years across Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia – eight times as many approved during the entire Bush Presidency.
- duxup 6y ago
  That doesn't seem to relate to what I said. Obama making decisions on his own doesn't have anything to do with middle east nation's interest in US approval for their own actions.
  - hn8788 6y ago
    Killing people in other countries because their government isn't doing enough to fight extremism doesn't sound like they've been "left to their own devices".
    - duxup 6y ago
      "left to their own devices" doesn't mean that the US (or anyone else) would be uninvolved in things. I'm addressing what those middle east nations choose to do and who they consult with, get 'approval' from / etc.
      - Grustaf 6y ago
        > "left to their own devices" doesn't mean that the US (or anyone else) would be uninvolved in things. What? That's exactly what it means.
- Shivetya 6y ago
  and less than a hundred days into his Presidency Biden is bombing the Middle East; a guy who claimed he would use military power responsibly and his supporters mocked Trump supporters that claimed otherwise. The simple fact is we have very little justification to criticize the actions of other nations when we cannot even go an Administration without attacking another nation.
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    1) what makes the bombing a non-responsible use of military power? 2) Why is the US not allowed to "attack[] another nation"? esp given it was a response to attacks on American/coalition personnel?
the_reformation 6y ago
The series of Arabic states opening diplomatic relations with Israel was definitely American-led.
- duxup 6y ago
  Any influence /= as much influence as before / countries looking to the US when they take their own actions. As alliances shift in the middle east it's not surprising that Israel would be involved. Relations / tensions are pretty wild in the Middle East. I think 'unlikely' alliances are almost inevitable, and maybe not as unlikely as we think. There area lot of strangely conflicting incentives out there.
  - zikzak 6y ago
    Surely, some of it was also political theatre to give the US administration a win in the region (Mission Accomplished, all over again) in exchange for the sale of advanced weapons systems. Just my two cents.
    - duxup 6y ago
      Maybe but despite the fact that they might celebrate it... I really doubt the value of "hey someone opened up diplomatic relations with Israel" is all that valuable to a given US politician... same goes with the state that chose to do so. I think whatever horse trading happened behind the scenes was likely more valuable than PR.
      - zikzak 6y ago
        I don't disagree on the reality, I am just saying that in my personal reading of various subreddits, forums, etc. I have seen countless posts and pundits saying what a great Job Trump and Kushner did on these agreements. It was clearly being used to show off their accomplishments in the region, real or not.
- wavefunction 6y ago
  Two countries is a series? Can't really count Morocco or Sudan as 'Arabic states' unless you're really stretching that definition and it seems you are.

kgog 6y ago

> The Biden administration has paused arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates as it conducts a wider review of agreements worth billions of dollars made by the Trump administration, sources familiar with the matter told CNN Wednesday. https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/us-pauses-saudi-uae-arms-sales/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/27/politics/us-pauses-saudi-uae-...

Bud 6y ago

Um, merely declassifying this report already is a major change in US policy. Furthermore, Biden is reportedly refusing to even speak with MBS, as reported in the NY Times article about this: "Ahead of the report’s release, Mr. Biden spoke to King Salman of Saudi Arabia. Although the official White House description of the call did not say that the two men discussed the report, other officials said the purpose of the discussion was for Mr. Biden to explain why he was releasing the findings and outline the administration’s next steps. The administration has made clear that Mr. Biden will speak only to King Salman, his counterpart as head of state, and will not speak directly to the crown prince. Whether the new administration’s attempt to bypass the 35-year-old crown prince and deal only with his 84-year-old and often ailing father will succeed remains to be seen."

hourislate 6y ago

The Biden foreign policy so far is exactly what the Trump policy was. As a matter of fact I would bet it will escalate in violence. Where is the outrage? All the social media platforms are silent.

arkitaip 6y ago
He's only been in power for a month - what do you expect, a miracle?
- Jasper_ 6y ago
  And in that month, Biden's already gave the thumbs up to bombing Syria, killing 17 people.
  - cmorgan31 6y ago
    So complain to Biden, no one is saying we shouldn’t stop bombing people in other countries. It’s also not a shock to anyone in the US that Biden is effectively a conservative to every other western nation. I didn’t put my hopes on him fixing things. I wanted the clown in chief to stop breaking things for four years. If Biden keeps breaking things I’ll vote him out too. I just won’t do it to the benefit of more far right demagogues.
    - mindslight 6y ago
      Exactly. I'm a libertarian who had never voted for a major party federal candidate and yet I found myself voting for the conservative option of Biden this time around. I want to go back to hating the government a normal amount. The military-industrial-surveillance complex is evil, but at least it has a vested interest to not wantonly kill half a million Americans.
      - ALittleLight 6y ago
        I personally think Trump is dumb, indecent, and a liar - but it's not fair to suggest he's responsible for killing half a million Americans. The US seems to have had a somewhat typical response and outcome to the virus with fewer per capita deaths than Germany, France, UK, Spain, and others[1]. Surely all these countries weren't also run by regimes trying to kill their population. Trump's opponents didn't seem to be suggesting noticeably better strategies to deal with the virus and Democrat led states don't seem to be handling the virus much better than Republican led states [2]. 1 - https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality 2 - https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/data/mortality

newacct583 6y ago

Simply not lying to us is a very large step in the right direction, though. You don't have to be in the tank for the Biden administration to recognize that it was VERY BAD that the previous administration engaged in (or at least acceded to) a coverup of a state-sanctioned murder.

objektif 6y ago
Secret: Obama lied about a lot of things. https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/501365/ https://amp.theatlantic.com/amp/article/501365/

dionian 6y ago

let's hope they dont screw anything up. we just started solidifying the Abraham accords, to the detriment of Iran and China especially.

LatteLazy 6y ago

Sadly I think you're right, there is no sign of a return to the Iran deal even, let alone an actual change of policy there. This is housekeeping at most.

emilsedgh 6y ago
As an Iranian (living in US) who follows this very very closely, you are wrong. There are many signs of Biden administration going back to the deal. They are both dancing around it but there's definitely been a policy change regarding Iran.
- flyinglizard 6y ago
  What are your thoughts on the deal?
  - emilsedgh 6y ago
    It's a good deal for the whole world except for Saudi Arabia's regime, Israeli's hardliners, American Hawks and Iranian hardliners. For stability of the region, commerce, peace and moderate forces in all parties, it was a good deal. It wouldn't have resolved all the issues the world has with Iran, but the idea of having a "deal" in place that resolves all issues is childish. Eg can the US have a "deal" with Saudi in place to resolve all the regional and human rights issues with them? Of course not. But those who argue against the JCPOA claim the US could've had a "deal" with Iran that resolved all issues. It would've been used to rebuild some trust between both nations and help resolving other issues in long term.
    - jasonwatkinspdx 6y ago
      I just wanted to extend word that no matter how comments go on this website, there is a sizable fraction of the US that understand the deal was about creating an imperfect detente to limit the hardliners on various sides, to create space for progress. We'll see how things shake out, but I just wanted to say that there are plenty of people over here to see this in that way.