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>PROTECT IP = Private Rightsholders Opposed To Emerging Consumer Technologies, Innovation, and Progress I find it odd that, while I'm uniformly turned off by S

>PROTECT IP = Private Rightsholders Opposed To Emerging Consumer Technologies, Innovation, and Progress I find it odd that, while I'm uniformly turned off by Stallman's "iBad/iGroan/Swindle" characterizations, I can fully get behind this repurposing of the PROTECT IP acronym. Perhaps because it doesn't reek of Stallman's immaturity, or maybe because it is actually descriptive; I nonetheless find myself supporting it.

9999 15y ago
I groan at iGroan because it's a bad pun, but Stallman's position seems more or less sound. DRM sucks. This article from the EFF is too brief and poorly annotated to really lead me to any conclusions on its own. I would like to read a fully fleshed out position paper/article on the deficiencies of the PROTECT IP act. Anyone know of one? edit: Found this from the EFF themselves: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/05/plus-ca-change-protect-ip-domain-name-system-and https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/05/plus-ca-change-protect... They link to the bill itself which is only 30 pages. It is pretty poorly thought out.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  I don't have a problem with Stallman's positions, just his tactics. He marginalizes himself and the FSF by behaviour that appeals only to his most devoted followers. As a hacker, he should realize that his solution is suboptimal and find ways to improve it. Instead, he brushes off those who criticize him as being in league with the forces of oppression, or at least not caring enough about freedom to see why he's right. He presents a false dichotomy: either you agree with me and my methods, or you agree with Apple and theirs. He ignores the obvious majority opinion amongst hackers: I agree with you, but I find your methods distasteful and ineffective. For that reason, I can't support you or your organization.
  - mquander 15y ago
    I don't think that the majority opinion amongst "hackers" (as in, the general programmer audience here) agrees with Stallman in a meaningful sense. A majority might sort of prefer free software, but don't care to fight for it very much; how many people use and develop for & on proprietary software and locked-down hardware anyway because they care more about convenience and utility than freedom? RMS calls it like he sees it.
  - 9999 15y ago
    The FSF's cause is by its very nature already marginalized in the wider world. Members of the software developing communities and computing hobbyist communities, probably find the iGroan stuff particularly cringe inducing, but there may be a useful tradeoff there in that at least they are memorable for politicians, random passersby, etc. They may not be memorable in a positive way (and I would say they probably are not...), but given how incredibly little understanding there is of their issues in general, gaining any awareness of the issues at hand is kind of a win for them even if they're perceived as lunatics.
guelo 15y ago
I'm so impressed with your superior maturity in not being able to tolerate RMS's jokes, and how you're able to find a way of taking a swipe at one of the great hackers of his generation even though the topic is completely unrelated.
- redthrowaway 15y ago
  I have nothing against Stallman as a hacker, or his goals with the FSF. I use the gnu toolchain daily, and run Fedora on my old laptop. I have nothing but respect for what he did in the 80s and 90s with GNU/Linux. That said, I do have a problem with how he presents his case, and the silly rebrandings of any non-free devices. It's germane to this discussion because of the EFF's rebranding of the PROTECT IP Act, which although similar in nature comes across much better than any of the FSF's rebrandings. I think it's disingenuous to call them jokes, as they really don't come across that way.

9999 15y ago

I groan at iGroan because it's a bad pun, but Stallman's position seems more or less sound. DRM sucks. This article from the EFF is too brief and poorly annotated to really lead me to any conclusions on its own. I would like to read a fully fleshed out position paper/article on the deficiencies of the PROTECT IP act. Anyone know of one? edit: Found this from the EFF themselves: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/05/plus-ca-change-protect-ip-domain-name-system-and https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2011/05/plus-ca-change-protect... They link to the bill itself which is only 30 pages. It is pretty poorly thought out.

redthrowaway 15y ago
I don't have a problem with Stallman's positions, just his tactics. He marginalizes himself and the FSF by behaviour that appeals only to his most devoted followers. As a hacker, he should realize that his solution is suboptimal and find ways to improve it. Instead, he brushes off those who criticize him as being in league with the forces of oppression, or at least not caring enough about freedom to see why he's right. He presents a false dichotomy: either you agree with me and my methods, or you agree with Apple and theirs. He ignores the obvious majority opinion amongst hackers: I agree with you, but I find your methods distasteful and ineffective. For that reason, I can't support you or your organization.
- mquander 15y ago
  I don't think that the majority opinion amongst "hackers" (as in, the general programmer audience here) agrees with Stallman in a meaningful sense. A majority might sort of prefer free software, but don't care to fight for it very much; how many people use and develop for & on proprietary software and locked-down hardware anyway because they care more about convenience and utility than freedom? RMS calls it like he sees it.
- 9999 15y ago
  The FSF's cause is by its very nature already marginalized in the wider world. Members of the software developing communities and computing hobbyist communities, probably find the iGroan stuff particularly cringe inducing, but there may be a useful tradeoff there in that at least they are memorable for politicians, random passersby, etc. They may not be memorable in a positive way (and I would say they probably are not...), but given how incredibly little understanding there is of their issues in general, gaining any awareness of the issues at hand is kind of a win for them even if they're perceived as lunatics.

guelo 15y ago

I'm so impressed with your superior maturity in not being able to tolerate RMS's jokes, and how you're able to find a way of taking a swipe at one of the great hackers of his generation even though the topic is completely unrelated.

redthrowaway 15y ago
I have nothing against Stallman as a hacker, or his goals with the FSF. I use the gnu toolchain daily, and run Fedora on my old laptop. I have nothing but respect for what he did in the 80s and 90s with GNU/Linux. That said, I do have a problem with how he presents his case, and the silly rebrandings of any non-free devices. It's germane to this discussion because of the EFF's rebranding of the PROTECT IP Act, which although similar in nature comes across much better than any of the FSF's rebrandings. I think it's disingenuous to call them jokes, as they really don't come across that way.