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I am really sad that so much of our elite media institutions are deeply Luddite. They wear their anti-technology, anti-progress biases like badges of honor. It

I am really sad that so much of our elite media institutions are deeply Luddite. They wear their anti-technology, anti-progress biases like badges of honor. It’s likely a signaling mechanism. The elite doesn’t need technology because they don’t need change. So opposing change signals that things are good for you already. I don’t love Elon Musk but at least he dreams big and has a change-positive attitude. Because I think things do need to change.

quantummkv 6y ago
It's not that the elite media institutions are Luddite. It's that a lot of tech people don't give elite media the proper respect it thinks it demands. And that turns into a cycle where media then lashes out with hurt egos, further flaming it, like with this article. It's clear from reading the article that the real issue in the article is not Mars or Earth or Carl Sagan, it's Elon Musk. Or more specifically, the complete lack of respect Elon publicly gives to elite media.
narrator 6y ago
All the elite needs is fewer people taking up resources. Otherwise, everything is perfect for them. The status quo could last from now to eternity. This is kind of how the Egyptian civilization worked. They went 2000 years without a lot of change. Just an endless "sustainable" cycle. I like the comparison between the Canaanite religion and Judaism. The elites are Canaanites and dealt with their not being enough for everyone by having the lower classes sacrifice their children to Mammon. This is the equivalent of the endless complaining about useless eaters and overpopulation by extremely wealthy people. The Jews, and the rest of the Abrahamic religions on the other hand, let the people who properly prepared survive (e.g Noah), with a few carveouts, such as the gleanings for those that didn't. The king could never take your property without just compensation. The priest could never ask you to sacrifice your children. This individualistic struggle to survive is what culturally has led to the huge technological innovations in the west.
- fallingfrog 6y ago
  “ This individualistic struggle to survive is what culturally has led to the huge technological innovations in the west.” I don’t think that is the consensus view. It was more to do with the university system, the scientific method, and the invention of capital markets. That and a huge influx of free resources and gold that came from the discovery of the Americas. Also of course the Middle East was annihilated by Ghengis Khan and Western Europe wasn’t. A lot of historical factors were at play.
  - tom_mellior 6y ago
    > free resources and gold that came from robbing the Americas Fixed that for you (agree with the rest).
    - fallingfrog 6y ago
      Correct, I should have put “free” in scare quotes, lol. Stolen is more accurate.
teachrdan 6y ago
Please help me understand your perspective. When you say that Elon Musk is admirable because he "has a change-positive attitude," isn't that assuming that any change is inherently good? That seem just as illogical as assuming that any change is inherently bad. I can also think of instances when mainstream media has been uncritically supportive of new technology, even when they were pretty obviously unsound. One example was their uncritical promotion of filtering technologies that would magically remove microplastics from the ocean, even when there was no way for them to distinguish microplastics from same-sized algae and microorganisms--in addition to a host of other logistical challenges. So I don't think the problem here is that media elites hate change, or that all change is inherently good. In this case the Atlantic is pointing out real, significant challenges for permanent human habitation of Mars at a large scale. Do you believe there's any way to write that story that wouldn't be "anti-technology, anti-progress"?

quantummkv 6y ago

It's not that the elite media institutions are Luddite. It's that a lot of tech people don't give elite media the proper respect it thinks it demands. And that turns into a cycle where media then lashes out with hurt egos, further flaming it, like with this article. It's clear from reading the article that the real issue in the article is not Mars or Earth or Carl Sagan, it's Elon Musk. Or more specifically, the complete lack of respect Elon publicly gives to elite media.

narrator 6y ago

All the elite needs is fewer people taking up resources. Otherwise, everything is perfect for them. The status quo could last from now to eternity. This is kind of how the Egyptian civilization worked. They went 2000 years without a lot of change. Just an endless "sustainable" cycle. I like the comparison between the Canaanite religion and Judaism. The elites are Canaanites and dealt with their not being enough for everyone by having the lower classes sacrifice their children to Mammon. This is the equivalent of the endless complaining about useless eaters and overpopulation by extremely wealthy people. The Jews, and the rest of the Abrahamic religions on the other hand, let the people who properly prepared survive (e.g Noah), with a few carveouts, such as the gleanings for those that didn't. The king could never take your property without just compensation. The priest could never ask you to sacrifice your children. This individualistic struggle to survive is what culturally has led to the huge technological innovations in the west.

fallingfrog 6y ago
“ This individualistic struggle to survive is what culturally has led to the huge technological innovations in the west.” I don’t think that is the consensus view. It was more to do with the university system, the scientific method, and the invention of capital markets. That and a huge influx of free resources and gold that came from the discovery of the Americas. Also of course the Middle East was annihilated by Ghengis Khan and Western Europe wasn’t. A lot of historical factors were at play.
- tom_mellior 6y ago
  > free resources and gold that came from robbing the Americas Fixed that for you (agree with the rest).
  - fallingfrog 6y ago
    Correct, I should have put “free” in scare quotes, lol. Stolen is more accurate.

teachrdan 6y ago

Please help me understand your perspective. When you say that Elon Musk is admirable because he "has a change-positive attitude," isn't that assuming that any change is inherently good? That seem just as illogical as assuming that any change is inherently bad. I can also think of instances when mainstream media has been uncritically supportive of new technology, even when they were pretty obviously unsound. One example was their uncritical promotion of filtering technologies that would magically remove microplastics from the ocean, even when there was no way for them to distinguish microplastics from same-sized algae and microorganisms--in addition to a host of other logistical challenges. So I don't think the problem here is that media elites hate change, or that all change is inherently good. In this case the Atlantic is pointing out real, significant challenges for permanent human habitation of Mars at a large scale. Do you believe there's any way to write that story that wouldn't be "anti-technology, anti-progress"?