4 ms·

>the App Store should not be the only marketplace available. Wouldn't Facebook then simply stop distributing it's app through the Apple App Store and then crea

by dnh44 6y ago

>the App Store should not be the only marketplace available. Wouldn't Facebook then simply stop distributing it's app through the Apple App Store and then create it's own app store that doesn't have any of the anti-tracking restrictions?

lwhi 6y ago
I think the issue is there two funding models at play. Advertising vs. paid content. Apple wants the tide to switch to paid content, and want to encourage people to do so through their own merchant gateways. In my opinion, this feel reasonable _only_ if consumers have real choice. Telling users they can use a different platform if they're not happy, is not real choice.
- dnh44 6y ago
  You're not wrong with your first three lines but do you really think consumers will actually have any meaningful choice if all the trendy but privacy invading apps have their own app store with software free to run rampant on users devices? With iOS, Apple was able to create a mass market of easy to use device for regular people that didn't get infested by various adware and malware. I think that's a really significant and impressive achievement. People choose to buy into Apple's ecosystem partially for this reason. When the next "must have" social/communication app is only available on a future Facebook AdStore we'll have the choice between installing some form of adware or not participating. That's even less of a real choice than having the freedom to switch platforms. If app stores get regulated I fear we'll end up where windows PCs were in the late 90's. I don't know about you but I quite enjoy not having to remove spyware from the mobile phones of friends and family on a regular basis. Also, slightly tongue in cheek, if Epic is able to force Apple to allow an Epic App Store on iOS will that mean that Epic will be forced to allow alternative cosmetics stores in Fortnite? How far should app store regulation go? >Telling users they can use a different platform if they're not happy, is not real choice. Finally why is this argument always made on behalf of users? I've never heard a user that wasn't also a developer complain about the lack of app stores where they can more easily download crapware. I think this is a lot more about developer rights masquerading as user rights. I think it's self evident that in a lot of cases that the interests of developers are totally at odds with the interests of users.
  - lwhi 6y ago
    > If app stores get regulated I fear we'll end up where windows PCs were in the late 90's. I don't know about you but I quite enjoy not having to remove spyware from the mobile phones of friends and family on a regular basis. What's stopping an alternative market place being hot on screening for bad apps and crapware too? > I think this is a lot more about developer rights masquerading as user rights. I disagree it's about the rights of everyone _accept_ Apple. I was trying to think of a good metaphor for these sanctioned app marketplaces. To me it feels like living in a city where you're forced to buy from one city sanctioned shopping mall. Every shop in the mall has to provide thirty percent of their takings to the city gov. If you're not happy with the setup you need to move to another city. Can you think of anyone who would think this represents a positive model?
celsoazevedo 6y ago
Is the permission popup that asks users to allow/block access to the location, tracking, etc, tied to the App Store? On Android, it doesn't matter the source of the app. If the app wants to access your location, camera, files, etc, you need to give it access. I don't see why this new iOS feature to "ask apps not to track" has to be different, isn't it all part of what the "app sandbox" lets them do? Apple can't control what's in the 3rd party stores, but they control iOS and what apps are allowed to do.
- dnh44 6y ago
  That would work for things like accessing a user’s address book or location but some of the quality control occurs at the App Store review level. I don’t think iOS would be capable of protecting against, for example, the running of hidden cryptocurrency software. Also iOS has private api’s but their use is prevented by the review process.
  - quenix 6y ago
    You can block access to private APIs at the kernel level without any manual review--in fact, blocking private APIs is about the easiest thing to automate.
- jackson1442 6y ago
  It's an iOS thing, but in the App Store you're not allowed to restrict functionality for users who don't consent to tracking, while elsewhere they can restrict whatever they like to bully you into accepting tracking.
- paulmd 6y ago
  Yes, but if they didn't have to justify to Apple (because it's not Apple's app store) a reason they needed a specific permission, Facebook would just demand all permissions.

by dnh44 6y ago

lwhi 6y ago

I think the issue is there two funding models at play. Advertising vs. paid content. Apple wants the tide to switch to paid content, and want to encourage people to do so through their own merchant gateways. In my opinion, this feel reasonable _only_ if consumers have real choice. Telling users they can use a different platform if they're not happy, is not real choice.

dnh44 6y ago
You're not wrong with your first three lines but do you really think consumers will actually have any meaningful choice if all the trendy but privacy invading apps have their own app store with software free to run rampant on users devices? With iOS, Apple was able to create a mass market of easy to use device for regular people that didn't get infested by various adware and malware. I think that's a really significant and impressive achievement. People choose to buy into Apple's ecosystem partially for this reason. When the next "must have" social/communication app is only available on a future Facebook AdStore we'll have the choice between installing some form of adware or not participating. That's even less of a real choice than having the freedom to switch platforms. If app stores get regulated I fear we'll end up where windows PCs were in the late 90's. I don't know about you but I quite enjoy not having to remove spyware from the mobile phones of friends and family on a regular basis. Also, slightly tongue in cheek, if Epic is able to force Apple to allow an Epic App Store on iOS will that mean that Epic will be forced to allow alternative cosmetics stores in Fortnite? How far should app store regulation go? >Telling users they can use a different platform if they're not happy, is not real choice. Finally why is this argument always made on behalf of users? I've never heard a user that wasn't also a developer complain about the lack of app stores where they can more easily download crapware. I think this is a lot more about developer rights masquerading as user rights. I think it's self evident that in a lot of cases that the interests of developers are totally at odds with the interests of users.
- lwhi 6y ago
  > If app stores get regulated I fear we'll end up where windows PCs were in the late 90's. I don't know about you but I quite enjoy not having to remove spyware from the mobile phones of friends and family on a regular basis. What's stopping an alternative market place being hot on screening for bad apps and crapware too? > I think this is a lot more about developer rights masquerading as user rights. I disagree it's about the rights of everyone _accept_ Apple. I was trying to think of a good metaphor for these sanctioned app marketplaces. To me it feels like living in a city where you're forced to buy from one city sanctioned shopping mall. Every shop in the mall has to provide thirty percent of their takings to the city gov. If you're not happy with the setup you need to move to another city. Can you think of anyone who would think this represents a positive model?

celsoazevedo 6y ago

Is the permission popup that asks users to allow/block access to the location, tracking, etc, tied to the App Store? On Android, it doesn't matter the source of the app. If the app wants to access your location, camera, files, etc, you need to give it access. I don't see why this new iOS feature to "ask apps not to track" has to be different, isn't it all part of what the "app sandbox" lets them do? Apple can't control what's in the 3rd party stores, but they control iOS and what apps are allowed to do.

dnh44 6y ago
That would work for things like accessing a user’s address book or location but some of the quality control occurs at the App Store review level. I don’t think iOS would be capable of protecting against, for example, the running of hidden cryptocurrency software. Also iOS has private api’s but their use is prevented by the review process.
- quenix 6y ago
  You can block access to private APIs at the kernel level without any manual review--in fact, blocking private APIs is about the easiest thing to automate.
jackson1442 6y ago
It's an iOS thing, but in the App Store you're not allowed to restrict functionality for users who don't consent to tracking, while elsewhere they can restrict whatever they like to bully you into accepting tracking.
paulmd 6y ago
Yes, but if they didn't have to justify to Apple (because it's not Apple's app store) a reason they needed a specific permission, Facebook would just demand all permissions.