4 ms·

Blender is an exception to the rule, and a rolemodel. For example, FreeCAD and KiCad are OK, but not as nice (especially re FreeCad) as paid alternatives. GIMP

Blender is an exception to the rule, and a rolemodel. For example, FreeCAD and KiCad are OK, but not as nice (especially re FreeCad) as paid alternatives. GIMP isn't on the same level as Photoshop.

codetrotter 6y ago
However, Krita seems really good also. Probably on par with Corel Painter.
- meshmonki 6y ago
  I'd also vouch for Krita. While I'm not a fan of it's window or layering system I think it has a nice balance of features compared to other digital painting software like Paint Tool Sai, Fire Alpaca, Corel, or Photoshop. I made the (mostly) full transition to it earlier last year and don't regret it.
  - TrevorJ 6y ago
    I agree, Krita is quite good. Out of curiosity, what do you not like about the layering? AFAIK it's pretty similar to PS, no?
    - meshmonki 6y ago
      It certainly is. I just find it has some quirks like group layers being hidden behind a tiny arrow suspiciously close to the paint layer button.
katmannthree 6y ago
Library management quirks aside, KiCad is pretty close to competitive unless you need simulation or other cutting edge features. If you're familiar with it and know what you're doing it'll get you where you need to go. Also check out realthunder's freecad fork, they've made some good progress on topological naming (with the effect of keeping models far more stable through minor changes). It's still unusable for all but the lightest duty professional work but it's an improvement.
- phkahler 6y ago
  Have you tried Horizon EDA?
  - katmannthree 6y ago
    I have! About a year ago -- it has great library management, and is overall a very good effort that could take over KiCad's place over the next decade if they stagnate. My criticism is mainly that the PCB layout tools were still buggy. I believe it is/was using some of KiCad's router code, but it took more work to get a layout done than doing the same thing in KiCad would. It also tended to get glitchy with increasing layout complexity. The schematic editor is a lot slower than KiCad's and not as feature-rich. The GTK widgets look and work very nicely on gnome-based environments but have issues on kde / windows. To be fair that's a GTK issue and not a Horizon issue, but unless Horizon has changed a lot lately I'd have a hard time recommending it over KiCad right now for professional use.
- dotancohen 6y ago
  > Library management quirks aside, KiCad is... Didn't they address that sometime in the past two years? I remember updating KiCad and having some issues with the parts libraries, but after that it seemed as good as I could expect it to be. I use it very, very rarely so really don't remember more than that.
  - katmannthree 6y ago
    It has gotten better and IIRC is supposed to continue to improve this year with v6, but it's still fragmented, clunky, and lacking features for professional use. Footprints and schematic symbols should belong to a parent component class with provisions for inventory tracking, etc. Their library manager works fine for hobby level work but if you're doing production you'll have to have a separate component management process that you integrate yourself. What they have is fine, it works, but it's a far cry from what you get with siemens eda (mentor graphics) or altium.
- lajhsdfhsdf 6y ago
phkahler 6y ago
Don't forget Inkscape, Firefox, and LibreOffice.
- zingplex 6y ago
  Of those three, I think Firefox is the only one that could be said to be on par with their commercial counterparts. Inkscape is powerful, but the UI isn't very responsive or intuitive. LibreOffice is slow and buggy whenever I use it.
omegote 6y ago
+1, thank god we've finally come to acknowledge and accept that Gimp has never been and will never be a professional alternative to Gimp for many users.
- Wistar 6y ago
  To Photoshop?
qchris 6y ago
I tried designing a relatively simple assembly in Freecad recently (again, as I've come back to it multiple times), and remembered how uniquely terrible some the design decisions have been. I mean, fundamentally user-hostile approaches to the most basic functionality, like rotating a part requires a left mouse + center mouse press in order and sketch lines not being created with center points. And when a user tried to give them feedback (someone else, not mine) civil feedback on the forum about it got a dev response of "Those are just our quirks, go back to Solidworks if you don't like it." I did end up having to fire up my Windows machine for Inventor. I'm sure it has some level of feature parity with commercial CAD buried somewhere, but it's so hard to get to even on the new 0.19 pre-release that I genuinely wouldn't try to put it in the same conversation as Blender or KiCad as open alternatives to commercial software. It's just not there.
- katmannthree 6y ago
  When you say rotating a part do you mean rotating the view or using the draft rotate (or some other workbench's rotate) command? FYI if you use the draft workbench you can snap to midpoints and then convert the autocad-equivalent draft workbench sketch to an inventor-equivalent part design / sketcher workbench sketch. You can also use the symmetry constraint in the sketcher workbench to constrain a point to the center of a line. If you get familiar with it you can technically model almost anything you want[0], but if you want to go back and change a feature (which is kinda the entire point of parametric cad) it'll likely destroy your part if you're not using the topological naming branch. Freecad realistically needs 5-10 more years to get basic feature parity with professional CAD from the early 2000's and then another release or two focused entirely on stability. [0]: Their opencascade geometry kernel has some moderately serious deficiencies for complex operations/objects, the assembly workbenches are just now approaching the point where they're stable enough that you can use them without having to rebuild your assembly every week, and while the new TechDraw workbench theoretically gives you the features you need to make manufacturing drawings (which is really the end goal for any professional CAD package, those are what you need to get your parts made) in practice it's too buggy to use with even simple assemblies.
- MayeulC 6y ago
  Try solvespace: https://solvespace.com/index.pl https://solvespace.com/index.pl It's exactly what I want of a CAD tool: a parametric solver with a 3D UI and 2D sketches. I haven't really have an opportunity to use it a lot since I discovered it, though. Kicad is quite nice, though.
billfruit 6y ago
I sort of disagree on Photoshop, most of the love for Photoshop seems to be just lock in to its existing work flow. I have not used Photoshop before using gimp, and for my use cases Gimps multiple window interface seemed to me the more usable interface. Photoshop's UI is nothing great.
- TrevorJ 6y ago
  Due to the subscription model, the UI is getting actively WORSE as well. You have to push new features to justify a subscription, and most of those seem to be taking the form of useless UI clutter and cruft. There hasn't been a truly valuable new feature in PS since around the CS2 days IMO.
- Inityx 6y ago
  Photoshop has fundamentally different editing paradigms (e.g. layer styles, adjustment layers) that make it incomparable to GIMP.

Blender is an exception to the rule, and a rolemodel. For example, FreeCAD and KiCad are OK, but not as nice (especially re FreeCad) as paid alternatives. GIMP isn't on the same level as Photoshop.

codetrotter 6y ago

However, Krita seems really good also. Probably on par with Corel Painter.

meshmonki 6y ago
I'd also vouch for Krita. While I'm not a fan of it's window or layering system I think it has a nice balance of features compared to other digital painting software like Paint Tool Sai, Fire Alpaca, Corel, or Photoshop. I made the (mostly) full transition to it earlier last year and don't regret it.
- TrevorJ 6y ago
  I agree, Krita is quite good. Out of curiosity, what do you not like about the layering? AFAIK it's pretty similar to PS, no?
  - meshmonki 6y ago
    It certainly is. I just find it has some quirks like group layers being hidden behind a tiny arrow suspiciously close to the paint layer button.

katmannthree 6y ago

Library management quirks aside, KiCad is pretty close to competitive unless you need simulation or other cutting edge features. If you're familiar with it and know what you're doing it'll get you where you need to go. Also check out realthunder's freecad fork, they've made some good progress on topological naming (with the effect of keeping models far more stable through minor changes). It's still unusable for all but the lightest duty professional work but it's an improvement.

phkahler 6y ago
Have you tried Horizon EDA?
- katmannthree 6y ago
  I have! About a year ago -- it has great library management, and is overall a very good effort that could take over KiCad's place over the next decade if they stagnate. My criticism is mainly that the PCB layout tools were still buggy. I believe it is/was using some of KiCad's router code, but it took more work to get a layout done than doing the same thing in KiCad would. It also tended to get glitchy with increasing layout complexity. The schematic editor is a lot slower than KiCad's and not as feature-rich. The GTK widgets look and work very nicely on gnome-based environments but have issues on kde / windows. To be fair that's a GTK issue and not a Horizon issue, but unless Horizon has changed a lot lately I'd have a hard time recommending it over KiCad right now for professional use.
dotancohen 6y ago
> Library management quirks aside, KiCad is... Didn't they address that sometime in the past two years? I remember updating KiCad and having some issues with the parts libraries, but after that it seemed as good as I could expect it to be. I use it very, very rarely so really don't remember more than that.
- katmannthree 6y ago
  It has gotten better and IIRC is supposed to continue to improve this year with v6, but it's still fragmented, clunky, and lacking features for professional use. Footprints and schematic symbols should belong to a parent component class with provisions for inventory tracking, etc. Their library manager works fine for hobby level work but if you're doing production you'll have to have a separate component management process that you integrate yourself. What they have is fine, it works, but it's a far cry from what you get with siemens eda (mentor graphics) or altium.
lajhsdfhsdf 6y ago

phkahler 6y ago

Don't forget Inkscape, Firefox, and LibreOffice.

zingplex 6y ago
Of those three, I think Firefox is the only one that could be said to be on par with their commercial counterparts. Inkscape is powerful, but the UI isn't very responsive or intuitive. LibreOffice is slow and buggy whenever I use it.

omegote 6y ago

+1, thank god we've finally come to acknowledge and accept that Gimp has never been and will never be a professional alternative to Gimp for many users.

Wistar 6y ago
To Photoshop?

qchris 6y ago

I tried designing a relatively simple assembly in Freecad recently (again, as I've come back to it multiple times), and remembered how uniquely terrible some the design decisions have been. I mean, fundamentally user-hostile approaches to the most basic functionality, like rotating a part requires a left mouse + center mouse press in order and sketch lines not being created with center points. And when a user tried to give them feedback (someone else, not mine) civil feedback on the forum about it got a dev response of "Those are just our quirks, go back to Solidworks if you don't like it." I did end up having to fire up my Windows machine for Inventor. I'm sure it has some level of feature parity with commercial CAD buried somewhere, but it's so hard to get to even on the new 0.19 pre-release that I genuinely wouldn't try to put it in the same conversation as Blender or KiCad as open alternatives to commercial software. It's just not there.

katmannthree 6y ago
When you say rotating a part do you mean rotating the view or using the draft rotate (or some other workbench's rotate) command? FYI if you use the draft workbench you can snap to midpoints and then convert the autocad-equivalent draft workbench sketch to an inventor-equivalent part design / sketcher workbench sketch. You can also use the symmetry constraint in the sketcher workbench to constrain a point to the center of a line. If you get familiar with it you can technically model almost anything you want[0], but if you want to go back and change a feature (which is kinda the entire point of parametric cad) it'll likely destroy your part if you're not using the topological naming branch. Freecad realistically needs 5-10 more years to get basic feature parity with professional CAD from the early 2000's and then another release or two focused entirely on stability. [0]: Their opencascade geometry kernel has some moderately serious deficiencies for complex operations/objects, the assembly workbenches are just now approaching the point where they're stable enough that you can use them without having to rebuild your assembly every week, and while the new TechDraw workbench theoretically gives you the features you need to make manufacturing drawings (which is really the end goal for any professional CAD package, those are what you need to get your parts made) in practice it's too buggy to use with even simple assemblies.
MayeulC 6y ago
Try solvespace: https://solvespace.com/index.pl https://solvespace.com/index.pl It's exactly what I want of a CAD tool: a parametric solver with a 3D UI and 2D sketches. I haven't really have an opportunity to use it a lot since I discovered it, though. Kicad is quite nice, though.

billfruit 6y ago

I sort of disagree on Photoshop, most of the love for Photoshop seems to be just lock in to its existing work flow. I have not used Photoshop before using gimp, and for my use cases Gimps multiple window interface seemed to me the more usable interface. Photoshop's UI is nothing great.

TrevorJ 6y ago
Due to the subscription model, the UI is getting actively WORSE as well. You have to push new features to justify a subscription, and most of those seem to be taking the form of useless UI clutter and cruft. There hasn't been a truly valuable new feature in PS since around the CS2 days IMO.
Inityx 6y ago
Photoshop has fundamentally different editing paradigms (e.g. layer styles, adjustment layers) that make it incomparable to GIMP.