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While I do believe the Japanese murder rate is low, the Japanese criminal justice system is also a complete farce and I would not consider their statistics reli

While I do believe the Japanese murder rate is low, the Japanese criminal justice system is also a complete farce and I would not consider their statistics reliable. Unsolved cases are unacceptable and so suspicious deaths without an obvious suspect are classified as a suicide or natural death with little investigation and no autopsy. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/02/03/national/media-national/japans-suicide-statistics-dont-tell-the-real-story/ https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2013/02/03/national/media-... https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-nov-09-fg-autopsy9-story.html https://www.latimes.com/archives/la-xpm-2007-nov-09-fg-autop... -------------- Not that when they believe a crime has occurred is much better. If the police think you have committed a crime, you are guilty, whether you are or not. If you don't agree that you're guilty, they can just torture you with sleep deprivation and non-stop interrogation for a month without access to a lawyer. If you cave to the torture at any point and sign a confession (or if someone just...forges your confession) that confession will be considered binding with little chance of overturning it. Good luck withstanding that. https://www.economist.com/leaders/2015/12/05/forced-to-confess https://www.economist.com/leaders/2015/12/05/forced-to-confe... https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/10/call-eliminate-japans-hostage-justice-system-japanese-legal-professionals https://www.hrw.org/news/2019/04/10/call-eliminate-japans-ho... https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2016/10/10/japan-forced-confessions-and-wrong-convictions https://www.aljazeera.com/features/2016/10/10/japan-forced-c...

slothtrop 6y ago
It's a leap to assume that crime and incarceration rate stats are a fabrication by virtue that the solve-rate of crimes is abnormally high. They have nothing to do with one another.
- volkl48 6y ago
  I disagree. They're the product of the same pressure. Crimes need to be solved and unsolved crimes or acquittals are to be avoided at all costs. If that is your reality: They can be solved by aggressive prosecution of those under suspicion - torturing confessions out of people if they are unwilling to confess (maybe because they're innocent). They can also be solved by selective prosecution - don't look too hard at cases that seem like they'll be difficult, call them a suicide or natural death and close the book. No crime, no problem to make you look bad if you can't solve it. ------ I am not alleging that Japan is actually a place with high crime rates. Just that the deep flaws in their system provide a strong incentive to distort their crime rates. Especially for homicide, being both high profile and being a crime where the victim can't complain about how their case is handled. You're citing their homicide rates as an example of "strict punishment does appear to have an impact on crime", and I'm suggesting Japan's homicide statistics aren't a great example. -------- On a related note (and one I've read far less on), it seems the vast majority of criminal offenders basically get a suspended sentence, at least for their first offense. So, I'm not sure that you can really say that Japan's criminal justice system is an example of "strict punishment" either.
  - slothtrop 6y ago
    The gulf between U.S. and Japanese homicide rates is so high that it's a farce to suggest a hypothetical distortion of real occurrences would in any way be meaningful, notwithstanding that there is zero evidence it's not accurate in the first place. > So, I'm not sure that you can really say that Japan's criminal justice system is an example of "strict punishment" either. You can depending on the nature of the crime.

slothtrop 6y ago

It's a leap to assume that crime and incarceration rate stats are a fabrication by virtue that the solve-rate of crimes is abnormally high. They have nothing to do with one another.

volkl48 6y ago
I disagree. They're the product of the same pressure. Crimes need to be solved and unsolved crimes or acquittals are to be avoided at all costs. If that is your reality: They can be solved by aggressive prosecution of those under suspicion - torturing confessions out of people if they are unwilling to confess (maybe because they're innocent). They can also be solved by selective prosecution - don't look too hard at cases that seem like they'll be difficult, call them a suicide or natural death and close the book. No crime, no problem to make you look bad if you can't solve it. ------ I am not alleging that Japan is actually a place with high crime rates. Just that the deep flaws in their system provide a strong incentive to distort their crime rates. Especially for homicide, being both high profile and being a crime where the victim can't complain about how their case is handled. You're citing their homicide rates as an example of "strict punishment does appear to have an impact on crime", and I'm suggesting Japan's homicide statistics aren't a great example. -------- On a related note (and one I've read far less on), it seems the vast majority of criminal offenders basically get a suspended sentence, at least for their first offense. So, I'm not sure that you can really say that Japan's criminal justice system is an example of "strict punishment" either.
- slothtrop 6y ago
  The gulf between U.S. and Japanese homicide rates is so high that it's a farce to suggest a hypothetical distortion of real occurrences would in any way be meaningful, notwithstanding that there is zero evidence it's not accurate in the first place. > So, I'm not sure that you can really say that Japan's criminal justice system is an example of "strict punishment" either. You can depending on the nature of the crime.