6 ms·

Seems to me like you're more playing "semantic ju-jitsu" than OP. Facebook collect data to sell targetted adspace, they do not sell data. This is a plain fact.

tmccrary55 6y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana...
- tmccrary55 6y ago
  It's funny how a link to Facebook's recent data selling scandal, in a discussion about whether Facebook sells data, gets voted down.
  - goatsi 6y ago
    Because that wasn't a data selling scandal? Cambridge Analytica didn't buy data on millions of people from Facebook, they harvested it for free due to lax permissions.
    - firephreek 6y ago
      "I didn't pay for sex your honor, I simply left money on the nightstand."
    - afiori 6y ago
      I guess they paid for that service and the reason they paid why they paid was the possibility to gather data. they had to gather the data themselves, but that is the difference between robbing an house and opening someone else door to robbers
  - cm2012 6y ago
    "Recent" "2013"
atonse 6y ago
They actually buy a ton of data from others. So they are encouraging a market that thrives by selling our data without our informed consent.
- zepto 6y ago
  Very true, and very bad, but not the same thing as selling the data themselves.
- calciphus 6y ago
  I hadn't heard of this recently. Where could I read more about it?
  - newscracker 6y ago
    Not GP. I don’t want to link to one or two specific sources, but you can find many reports by searching for “Facebook buying offline data”.
cutthegrass2 6y ago
They may not "sell" access to user data, but they certainly allow access to it: "In total, it said the social network had special arrangements with more than 150 companies to share its members' personal data. Most of these, it said, were other tech firms, but the list also included online retailers, car-makers and media organisations, including the NYT itself, among others." source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46618582 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46618582
- saddlerustle 6y ago
  What that article is describing is just that the Facebook Graph API existed, which always required user consent.
ohgodplsno 6y ago
And Facebook can absolutely go fuck itself. Whether they're collecting data for their own usage, to resell to other directly or indirectly, or for any other usage, they can get royally fucked. Especially when they are still tracking me even after deleting my account.
mbesto 6y ago
> This is a plain fact. A plain fact that requires looking realistically at how colloquialisms are used combined with a little bit of technical know how. How many businesses do you know actually "sell data"? The only market I can think of are companies like Zoominfo. Outside of that there really aren't that many companies that "sell your data". However, you'll see a ton of social justice campaigns against "stop companies selling your data". They aren't going after Zoominfo, they're going after Facebook. Does facebook capture data? Yes. Do they literally take that data and sell it byte for byte to other people? No. Is that data absolutely necessary to sell their products or services? Yes. So, in effect, its easier to say to the common person "they're selling your data" than "they're harvesting their data so they can sell products and services". Facebook is trying to defend itself in the public eye by responding to this slogan - not by the real factor that matters.
- edmundsauto 6y ago
  There are thousands of companies like ZoomInfo. They all trade csvs of data of dubious origins, mash and resell it to the highest bidder. There is a tranche of these companies who build algorithms to do fuzzy linking between huge datasets, including sources like data breaches (where name/address info is included). There are conferences. Much of the data can be obtained as Salesforce "apps" - connect your CRM to our massive data portal and we'll fill in information that you don't have. The biggest of these is owned by SF and called Data.com. Not to hand waive away anyone's pre-baked hatred of Google/FB/etc., but there is an actual data industry that does buy and sell your data, with no controls over it and what it can be used for. By comparison, FB and Google are much better stewards.
prepend 6y ago
Right, I mean prostitutes don’t sell sex right, they just sell access to their private parts temporarily. From a user privacy perspective, I’m skeeved out that Facebook sells access to data rather than giving out copies. The only difference is that Facebook makes more money. It’s like those asshole companies that say they don’t sell data, but only rent it. That’s not the point that I care about.
mattkevan 6y ago
Facebook don’t sell data, they rent out their users. The more info they have, the more accurate they can be about renting out the right ones.
- mewpmewp2 6y ago
  Renting also doesn't make any sense in this context. Facebook sells ad space, stop making up nonsensical analogies.
r00fus 6y ago
No they just have surprise leaks of data through API usage like for Cambridge Analytica then say they were hacked, when it's all above-board. Until/unless personal data becomes a liability for corporations they will continue to mine it and let us mortals deal with the fallout.

tmccrary55 6y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Analytica_data_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Facebook%E2%80%93Cambridge_Ana...

tmccrary55 6y ago
It's funny how a link to Facebook's recent data selling scandal, in a discussion about whether Facebook sells data, gets voted down.
- goatsi 6y ago
  Because that wasn't a data selling scandal? Cambridge Analytica didn't buy data on millions of people from Facebook, they harvested it for free due to lax permissions.
  - firephreek 6y ago
    "I didn't pay for sex your honor, I simply left money on the nightstand."
  - afiori 6y ago
    I guess they paid for that service and the reason they paid why they paid was the possibility to gather data. they had to gather the data themselves, but that is the difference between robbing an house and opening someone else door to robbers
- cm2012 6y ago
  "Recent" "2013"

atonse 6y ago

They actually buy a ton of data from others. So they are encouraging a market that thrives by selling our data without our informed consent.

zepto 6y ago
Very true, and very bad, but not the same thing as selling the data themselves.
calciphus 6y ago
I hadn't heard of this recently. Where could I read more about it?
- newscracker 6y ago
  Not GP. I don’t want to link to one or two specific sources, but you can find many reports by searching for “Facebook buying offline data”.

cutthegrass2 6y ago

They may not "sell" access to user data, but they certainly allow access to it: "In total, it said the social network had special arrangements with more than 150 companies to share its members' personal data. Most of these, it said, were other tech firms, but the list also included online retailers, car-makers and media organisations, including the NYT itself, among others." source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46618582 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-46618582

saddlerustle 6y ago
What that article is describing is just that the Facebook Graph API existed, which always required user consent.

ohgodplsno 6y ago

And Facebook can absolutely go fuck itself. Whether they're collecting data for their own usage, to resell to other directly or indirectly, or for any other usage, they can get royally fucked. Especially when they are still tracking me even after deleting my account.

mbesto 6y ago

> This is a plain fact. A plain fact that requires looking realistically at how colloquialisms are used combined with a little bit of technical know how. How many businesses do you know actually "sell data"? The only market I can think of are companies like Zoominfo. Outside of that there really aren't that many companies that "sell your data". However, you'll see a ton of social justice campaigns against "stop companies selling your data". They aren't going after Zoominfo, they're going after Facebook. Does facebook capture data? Yes. Do they literally take that data and sell it byte for byte to other people? No. Is that data absolutely necessary to sell their products or services? Yes. So, in effect, its easier to say to the common person "they're selling your data" than "they're harvesting their data so they can sell products and services". Facebook is trying to defend itself in the public eye by responding to this slogan - not by the real factor that matters.

edmundsauto 6y ago
There are thousands of companies like ZoomInfo. They all trade csvs of data of dubious origins, mash and resell it to the highest bidder. There is a tranche of these companies who build algorithms to do fuzzy linking between huge datasets, including sources like data breaches (where name/address info is included). There are conferences. Much of the data can be obtained as Salesforce "apps" - connect your CRM to our massive data portal and we'll fill in information that you don't have. The biggest of these is owned by SF and called Data.com. Not to hand waive away anyone's pre-baked hatred of Google/FB/etc., but there is an actual data industry that does buy and sell your data, with no controls over it and what it can be used for. By comparison, FB and Google are much better stewards.

prepend 6y ago

Right, I mean prostitutes don’t sell sex right, they just sell access to their private parts temporarily. From a user privacy perspective, I’m skeeved out that Facebook sells access to data rather than giving out copies. The only difference is that Facebook makes more money. It’s like those asshole companies that say they don’t sell data, but only rent it. That’s not the point that I care about.

mattkevan 6y ago

Facebook don’t sell data, they rent out their users. The more info they have, the more accurate they can be about renting out the right ones.

mewpmewp2 6y ago
Renting also doesn't make any sense in this context. Facebook sells ad space, stop making up nonsensical analogies.

r00fus 6y ago

No they just have surprise leaks of data through API usage like for Cambridge Analytica then say they were hacked, when it's all above-board. Until/unless personal data becomes a liability for corporations they will continue to mine it and let us mortals deal with the fallout.