4 ms·
I’m tired of the complainers of the complainers. First a technology seems cool, then after engineers become experienced with the tool the warts rear itself and
by neonological 6y ago
I’m tired of the complainers of the complainers. First a technology seems cool, then after engineers become experienced with the tool the warts rear itself and you get a vocal group of complainers.
It doesn’t end there... after complaining for a really long time two things happen. First off so much time has passed that you get these domain experts (Devops people) whose entire job is to mess with kubernetes. Second the complainers have been complaining so long that people get tired of it.
You now get people who are so tired of listening to people complain whose entire job entire job revolves around kubernetes that these people now start complaining about the complainers.
It happened with JavaScript. Javascript was around for so long people started complaining about the complainers. In fact it’s been around so long that a whole generation of people who’ve never used any other language was literally born. These people started off as the complainers against the complainers but now they outnumber the complainers so you rarely see people talk shit about JavaScript anymore.
Actually JavaScript has been around so long that the entire language has changed and part of the terribleness was fixed by making another language (typescript) compile into JavaScript.
Which brings me back to kubernetes. Kubernetes is a bad tool with no alternative precisely because it requires a 3 man dedicated team a year to get things up and running.
A good tool would be something like allows me to to get it up and running in a week just by reading some docs. Even better an hour. Could such a tool exist and replace Kubernetes? Yes. Does such a tool exist? No.
I am a complainer and you are a complainer of complainers. What will likely happen some time from now is two possible things. Kube will be so integrated into the infrastructure ecosystem that wrappers will be written on top of kube just like how react and typescript have replaced JavaScript. If that doesn’t happen then a whole new tool will replace it.
I’m sorry to say but the ideal we are shooting for here is a tool that will ultimately make Devops a general thing that all developers can deal with rather then an entire specialist team. Again no such tool exists yet but it certainly can exist, especially when the inventor of the tool has become a complainer.
If the inventor of the tool becomes a complainer, that validates the complainers. And now the complainers of the complainers have nothing left to say.
- anchochilis 6y agoThere already are a number of platforms that make deploying and operating apps very simple! Heroku, AppEngine, Lambda, so many others. Your 5-person startup does not need a DevOps engineer. Your 50-person org should start thinking about it. Your 500-person company probably needs multiple DevOps engineers -- having every dev team independently figure out how to handle things like deployments, reliability, and security is chaotic and wasteful. There are a lot of details that only start to matter at scale, and both Kubernetes and dedicated infrastructure teams are for this use case.
- neonological 6y agoYeah my point is, if you’re migrating to kube without using some service that handles all the details, even the 5 person start up needs a dedicated devops team.
- dntrkv 6y ago> A good tool would be something like allows me to to get it up and running in a week just by reading some docs. Even better an hour. Could such a tool exist and replace Kubernetes? Yes. Does such a tool exist? No. Instead of complaining, why don't you build this tool? That's the problem I have with complainers.
- neonological 6y agoYou're complaining about me complaining. Instead of complaining why don't you build me the tool to stop me from complaining? It's the same reason why I'm not building the tool. That's the problem I have with complainers complaining about other complainers. Why don't you guys do something about my complaining rather then complain about it?
- ironmagma 6y agoWhy complain about the complainers? Because some complainers will never be happy no matter what the state of the world is. Ironically your solution (build more things) is the exact thing the complainers complain about with regard to the frontend world. They complain too many things have been built. You can’t ever satisfy everyone.
- crubier 6y agoNice! Thanks to you we just reached level 3: The complainers of complainers of complainers! Level 4 is coming!