3 ms·

backend/infra from startups to big corps. especially in product driven startups, where engineers are 2nd/3rd class citizens. in consultancy, is somewhat better

backend/infra from startups to big corps. especially in product driven startups, where engineers are 2nd/3rd class citizens. in consultancy, is somewhat better as it's engineering driven, but dull in the long run.

ed_balls 6y ago
> n product driven startups, where engineers are 2nd/3rd class citizens. in consultancy, is somewhat bette The the exact opposite of my experience.
bluedevilzn 6y ago
Maybe you should try FAAN where engineers are 1st class citizens.
- butt_hugger 6y ago
  Unfortunately, GP might have morals.
- itsyaboi 6y ago
  Not sure if a typo or an intentional omission. Isn't G a "engineers-first" company?
dasil003 6y ago
First thing is engineers are not second class citizens in any startup worth their salt. To the contrary, engineers are absolutely the most important thing, and if you can put on a bit of a product hat it's a super power that will drive not only your career success but actually impact the trajectory of the company as well. The problem though, is anyone can start a startup, and so you need to be sure you don't fall in with bozos. If you have a 5-person startup, and someone is "Head of Product" and full of their own ideas and talking down to engineers (or otherwise making them feel as you describe) then most likely you have a bozo on your hands, perhaps due to ego inflation during years of successful hoop jumping promoted by our education system & corporate culture. The bottom line is that product management is one of the hardest disciplines, and within tech it's filled with wannabes who schmoozed their way in but don't actually have the chops. This is not the end of the world if they are humble and willing to take input from engineering. The flip side though, is that as an engineer you need to be customer and business-centric in your thinking—not all engineers can/want to do this, but with the structured thinking the discipline requires you at least have a head start. Good luck.

ed_balls 6y ago

> n product driven startups, where engineers are 2nd/3rd class citizens. in consultancy, is somewhat bette The the exact opposite of my experience.

bluedevilzn 6y ago

Maybe you should try FAAN where engineers are 1st class citizens.

butt_hugger 6y ago
Unfortunately, GP might have morals.
itsyaboi 6y ago
Not sure if a typo or an intentional omission. Isn't G a "engineers-first" company?

dasil003 6y ago

First thing is engineers are not second class citizens in any startup worth their salt. To the contrary, engineers are absolutely the most important thing, and if you can put on a bit of a product hat it's a super power that will drive not only your career success but actually impact the trajectory of the company as well. The problem though, is anyone can start a startup, and so you need to be sure you don't fall in with bozos. If you have a 5-person startup, and someone is "Head of Product" and full of their own ideas and talking down to engineers (or otherwise making them feel as you describe) then most likely you have a bozo on your hands, perhaps due to ego inflation during years of successful hoop jumping promoted by our education system & corporate culture. The bottom line is that product management is one of the hardest disciplines, and within tech it's filled with wannabes who schmoozed their way in but don't actually have the chops. This is not the end of the world if they are humble and willing to take input from engineering. The flip side though, is that as an engineer you need to be customer and business-centric in your thinking—not all engineers can/want to do this, but with the structured thinking the discipline requires you at least have a head start. Good luck.