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I think this is missing an important fourth objective: reading to remember. I'm not sure how much others can relate, but I am hopeless at remembering most of

I think this is missing an important fourth objective: reading to remember. I'm not sure how much others can relate, but I am hopeless at remembering most of what I read or watch. Even when I spend several days pondering the same book chapter / paper / recipe / etc, taking thorough notes, there is no guarantee I will remember it six months or even one month from now. I started to realize that I was collecting new data points about a topic but rarely making connections between what I already know and what I read. So, I've been trying to slowly improve my retention by being more purposeful about what I read and how I take notes. Some guidelines that have helped in the past two or so years I've been trying to become a better reader: * Before reading, I try to make a mental note of what I hope to learn from reading, in as much detail as possible. * While reading, I underline key words and take brief notes in the margin so it's easy to look back later and get a rough idea of what each section of the book or articles is about. I will write "?" where I am confused or where I disagree, "@" for interesting citations I might want to follow up on later, etc. * After reading, I take very rough notes about what I thought the most important points were, my reactions, and what I want to know more about. Since I take Markdown notes, I can use #tags and [[bidirectional links]] to help myself find these notes later if I am ever reading about the same topic again. * Some topics are important enough to spend more time on. I basically have my own "encyclopedia" of Markdown files for certain topics that I can add to every time I come across an interesting bit of information. This has been especially helpful for keeping track of random tidbits of information I learn about cooking.

DanBC 6y ago
I like your points, and I think they'd be useful. > I'm not sure how much others can relate, but I am hopeless at remembering most of what I read or watch. Even when I spend several days pondering the same book chapter / paper / recipe / etc, taking thorough notes, there is no guarantee I will remember it six months or even one month from now. Have you tried teaching other people? That forces you to re-arrange what you know into a form that other people can understand, and that helps you understand it and retain it better. And those people get to ask you questions which help point to gaps in your knowledge. I guess this is similar to "see one, do one, teach one" methods.
apples_oranges 6y ago
We need to _do_ something with it. Reading is not enough, we must apply it somehow. That's why there are exercises in school or uni. That's why some people write summaries of books on their blogs. Another idea might be to make youtube videos about the books we read. Just to summarize them in our own words. To do more with the material that just reading. (P.S. It's also the reason why I like and recommend Zed Shaw's "Learn X the hard way" approach. He makes you actually type the whole source code in the book. I actually did as he said and it made me a better programmer.) (P.P.S. Even if we don't read to remember, I think we always still do, just differently. I think Paul Graham said something along these lines: When I read it's like compiling source code. I lose the source code but the compiled machine code is still there, running in my brain.)
- benrbray 6y ago
  Yeah, that's why I started taking notes. For topics that are important to my work / hobbies I write my own wiki-style summary to synthesize information from all the sources I've read. When I inevitably forget later, I basically have written myself a textbook that explains things in a way that I know I'll understand later. I will also happily try to summarize the info to my partner or whoever will listen. But outside of an academic settings it's really tough to find other people to have those sort of deep discussions with, especially ones who will do their own reading and bring an interesting perspective about the same niche topic.
  - dorchadas 6y ago
    I agree with you completely on that last point. I miss having an academic setting precisely because of that reason. I really feel like something was lost when salons and such closed, even though I realize it was mainly an educated leisure class that could frequent them. If you'd be willing to try to generate small discussion groups about books, I'm definitely interested. Might be worth putting out a call here on HN, though who knows how many will stick with it. It helps for me that my interests are all over the place. But sadly, most people just aren't academically bent in that sense.
criddell 6y ago
I'd be interested in learning how to read poetry. It seems like a different enough thing involving emotion and experience that your steps may not apply. If any poetry fans here remember what it took to start to crack the code, I'd love to hear it.
- benrbray 6y ago
  I'm unexperienced reading poetry, but I'm not sure I would treat it any differently. Poetry to me seems like it requires a lot of context to really understand. Who is the author and what kind of life have they lived? Who are their contemporaries and what cultural context are they responding to? etc. So maybe I'd do an initial "blind" read and take a quick note about my reaction. Then, I'd do some research about the author and try to figure out why they might have written that piece, followed by a second reading.
- mmcdermott 6y ago
  I think the following helps: 1) Start with earlier form-based poetry. Free verse is a hard place to start because it's difficult to even know what to look for if you're starting somewhere that open. 2) Find subject matter that interests you. I know that I associated poetry with the subject matter of romantic love for the longest time. There is a lot of that out there and I find it repetitive. I enjoyed epic poetry and more philosophical verse more and this really helped. 3) Read it out loud. For all the theory, poetry is written music. Reading it out loud helps to find the rhythm and to "feel" the pacing. 4) Short pieces often lend themselves to multiple read-throughs. Almost like a piece of code. I seldom read code starting on line 1 through line N. I usually take a few passes looking for different things. Short form verse is a lot like that. 5) "How to Read Poetry Like a Professor" by Thomas Foster is a good crash course if you really want to have a starting point. Remember that you're inundated with poetry. Nearly every pop, rock, rap or metal song you've ever heard in your life is poetry with musical accompaniment (music + poetry is a combination as old as history, near as I can tell).
_cloudkate 6y ago
Completely agree with this comment and thank you for sharing your pointers for better quality/more effective reading. Side note.. while I think your comment was meant to be educational & helpful in nature, I just wanted to say, there's also something beautifully poetic about the statement "reading to remember". It gave me all the feels!
- bikingtoTJs 6y ago
  came here to say the same thing! That phrase stood out when I was scrolling through the comments. nice
devnull255 6y ago
I've found the importance of remembering a book you've read depends on why you're reading the book in the first place. If you're reading to entertain, remembering what you've read isn't nearly as important as the experience you get reading it. It's why I've reread so many of the science fiction and fantasy books I love. Reading a book again, especially long after the original reading of it, re-ignites the pleasure of the experience of the first reading. The third and fourth levels of reading often require the reader to do exactly what you describe. I've actually started using paper index cards to do this, creating physically cataloged notes, which through the muscle memory of writing, help to embed the most important concepts and idea in my brain. I personally read a lot of books that inform or advance important ideas casually first. Then I go back and re-read sections, taking notes more carefully to properly ingest the critical topics into memory.

DanBC 6y ago

I like your points, and I think they'd be useful. > I'm not sure how much others can relate, but I am hopeless at remembering most of what I read or watch. Even when I spend several days pondering the same book chapter / paper / recipe / etc, taking thorough notes, there is no guarantee I will remember it six months or even one month from now. Have you tried teaching other people? That forces you to re-arrange what you know into a form that other people can understand, and that helps you understand it and retain it better. And those people get to ask you questions which help point to gaps in your knowledge. I guess this is similar to "see one, do one, teach one" methods.

apples_oranges 6y ago

We need to _do_ something with it. Reading is not enough, we must apply it somehow. That's why there are exercises in school or uni. That's why some people write summaries of books on their blogs. Another idea might be to make youtube videos about the books we read. Just to summarize them in our own words. To do more with the material that just reading. (P.S. It's also the reason why I like and recommend Zed Shaw's "Learn X the hard way" approach. He makes you actually type the whole source code in the book. I actually did as he said and it made me a better programmer.) (P.P.S. Even if we don't read to remember, I think we always still do, just differently. I think Paul Graham said something along these lines: When I read it's like compiling source code. I lose the source code but the compiled machine code is still there, running in my brain.)

benrbray 6y ago
Yeah, that's why I started taking notes. For topics that are important to my work / hobbies I write my own wiki-style summary to synthesize information from all the sources I've read. When I inevitably forget later, I basically have written myself a textbook that explains things in a way that I know I'll understand later. I will also happily try to summarize the info to my partner or whoever will listen. But outside of an academic settings it's really tough to find other people to have those sort of deep discussions with, especially ones who will do their own reading and bring an interesting perspective about the same niche topic.
- dorchadas 6y ago
  I agree with you completely on that last point. I miss having an academic setting precisely because of that reason. I really feel like something was lost when salons and such closed, even though I realize it was mainly an educated leisure class that could frequent them. If you'd be willing to try to generate small discussion groups about books, I'm definitely interested. Might be worth putting out a call here on HN, though who knows how many will stick with it. It helps for me that my interests are all over the place. But sadly, most people just aren't academically bent in that sense.

criddell 6y ago

I'd be interested in learning how to read poetry. It seems like a different enough thing involving emotion and experience that your steps may not apply. If any poetry fans here remember what it took to start to crack the code, I'd love to hear it.

benrbray 6y ago
I'm unexperienced reading poetry, but I'm not sure I would treat it any differently. Poetry to me seems like it requires a lot of context to really understand. Who is the author and what kind of life have they lived? Who are their contemporaries and what cultural context are they responding to? etc. So maybe I'd do an initial "blind" read and take a quick note about my reaction. Then, I'd do some research about the author and try to figure out why they might have written that piece, followed by a second reading.
mmcdermott 6y ago
I think the following helps: 1) Start with earlier form-based poetry. Free verse is a hard place to start because it's difficult to even know what to look for if you're starting somewhere that open. 2) Find subject matter that interests you. I know that I associated poetry with the subject matter of romantic love for the longest time. There is a lot of that out there and I find it repetitive. I enjoyed epic poetry and more philosophical verse more and this really helped. 3) Read it out loud. For all the theory, poetry is written music. Reading it out loud helps to find the rhythm and to "feel" the pacing. 4) Short pieces often lend themselves to multiple read-throughs. Almost like a piece of code. I seldom read code starting on line 1 through line N. I usually take a few passes looking for different things. Short form verse is a lot like that. 5) "How to Read Poetry Like a Professor" by Thomas Foster is a good crash course if you really want to have a starting point. Remember that you're inundated with poetry. Nearly every pop, rock, rap or metal song you've ever heard in your life is poetry with musical accompaniment (music + poetry is a combination as old as history, near as I can tell).

_cloudkate 6y ago

Completely agree with this comment and thank you for sharing your pointers for better quality/more effective reading. Side note.. while I think your comment was meant to be educational & helpful in nature, I just wanted to say, there's also something beautifully poetic about the statement "reading to remember". It gave me all the feels!

bikingtoTJs 6y ago
came here to say the same thing! That phrase stood out when I was scrolling through the comments. nice

devnull255 6y ago

I've found the importance of remembering a book you've read depends on why you're reading the book in the first place. If you're reading to entertain, remembering what you've read isn't nearly as important as the experience you get reading it. It's why I've reread so many of the science fiction and fantasy books I love. Reading a book again, especially long after the original reading of it, re-ignites the pleasure of the experience of the first reading. The third and fourth levels of reading often require the reader to do exactly what you describe. I've actually started using paper index cards to do this, creating physically cataloged notes, which through the muscle memory of writing, help to embed the most important concepts and idea in my brain. I personally read a lot of books that inform or advance important ideas casually first. Then I go back and re-read sections, taking notes more carefully to properly ingest the critical topics into memory.