4 ms·

I didn't know much of anything about ASL, but seeing David Cowan at some press conferences in Georgia made me a bit curious. There's a nice video of him on Yout

I didn't know much of anything about ASL, but seeing David Cowan at some press conferences in Georgia made me a bit curious. There's a nice video of him on Youtube[1] where he explains that deaf people's native language is ASL, and not English. That was absolutely flabbergasting to me, because I had always imagine, like you said, that it was just "do this gesture to mean this word and this gesture for this other word". [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5JGN1jno8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nd5JGN1jno8

bluGill 6y ago
It is more complex than that. ASL comes from french sign language, and so was always different from British sign language, and I suspect the grammar roots make sense in french. However since then things have diverged to the point that you can't really say there is anything in common with french sign language. Sign language only has a few (thousands) of signs. For the rest the signer finger spells the word they need, if they will use that word again they make up a new sign (often the first letter in a specific position). If a word is commonly used it will eventually enter the language in that city, and may or may not spread to other parts of the country/world. Obviously the finger spelling is the word in the spoken language not sign language. Warning, don't make up words in sign language until you are somewhat an expert. I know of a novice who needed to talk about a person named Ryan, so they gave Ryan a sign - not realizing that sign was already used for retard.
- 908B64B197 6y ago
  > I know of a novice who needed to talk about a person named Ryan, so they gave Ryan a sign - not realizing that sign was already used for retard. Plausible deniability here.
- codyogden 6y ago
  > Sign language only has a few (thousands) of signs. For the rest the signer finger spells the word they need, if they will use that word again they make up a new sign (often the first letter in a specific position). I'm not sure where this information comes from, but doesn't quite seem correct. A sign is much more involved than simple vocabulary, and qualified signs exist outside the concept of a one-to-one, sign-to-word relationship. There are five parameters to any sign: handshape, location, movement, palm orientation, and non-manual communication (e.g. grammar, tone, and emotion). These parameters are all in use for every signed vocab word you can think of, but they're also used in idioms, whole phrases, classifiers, depictions, and even lexicalized English words that have incorporated fingerspelling elements with other parameters to create complete, separate, non-vocabulary signs of their own (e.g. KILLED, PIZZA, BUZZ, COMMON).
  - bluGill 6y ago
    This is used for specialized words. A doctor needing to go into detail about a specifc cancer. A programer taking about the implementation of a garbage collector.
medstrom 6y ago
That would be called Signed English.
mabbo 6y ago
To add to what bluGill commented, there is "Signed English" which is word for word translation, there is ASL (or other signed languages), and there is a spectrum in between! And there can be disagreements in the Deaf community about, for lack of a better word, 'purity' of the language. Is it 'okay' to just sign English words with English grammar? Is there an ethical or moral imperative to maintain ASL as a language and not just a translation of another language? And then you have one person telling another person that there's something wrong with how they communicate their native language! Language overlapping with culture overlapping with disability (or different-ability?) overlapping with people being people. There's no easy answers. But it's fascinating.

bluGill 6y ago

It is more complex than that. ASL comes from french sign language, and so was always different from British sign language, and I suspect the grammar roots make sense in french. However since then things have diverged to the point that you can't really say there is anything in common with french sign language. Sign language only has a few (thousands) of signs. For the rest the signer finger spells the word they need, if they will use that word again they make up a new sign (often the first letter in a specific position). If a word is commonly used it will eventually enter the language in that city, and may or may not spread to other parts of the country/world. Obviously the finger spelling is the word in the spoken language not sign language. Warning, don't make up words in sign language until you are somewhat an expert. I know of a novice who needed to talk about a person named Ryan, so they gave Ryan a sign - not realizing that sign was already used for retard.

908B64B197 6y ago
> I know of a novice who needed to talk about a person named Ryan, so they gave Ryan a sign - not realizing that sign was already used for retard. Plausible deniability here.
codyogden 6y ago
> Sign language only has a few (thousands) of signs. For the rest the signer finger spells the word they need, if they will use that word again they make up a new sign (often the first letter in a specific position). I'm not sure where this information comes from, but doesn't quite seem correct. A sign is much more involved than simple vocabulary, and qualified signs exist outside the concept of a one-to-one, sign-to-word relationship. There are five parameters to any sign: handshape, location, movement, palm orientation, and non-manual communication (e.g. grammar, tone, and emotion). These parameters are all in use for every signed vocab word you can think of, but they're also used in idioms, whole phrases, classifiers, depictions, and even lexicalized English words that have incorporated fingerspelling elements with other parameters to create complete, separate, non-vocabulary signs of their own (e.g. KILLED, PIZZA, BUZZ, COMMON).
- bluGill 6y ago
  This is used for specialized words. A doctor needing to go into detail about a specifc cancer. A programer taking about the implementation of a garbage collector.

medstrom 6y ago

That would be called Signed English.

mabbo 6y ago

To add to what bluGill commented, there is "Signed English" which is word for word translation, there is ASL (or other signed languages), and there is a spectrum in between! And there can be disagreements in the Deaf community about, for lack of a better word, 'purity' of the language. Is it 'okay' to just sign English words with English grammar? Is there an ethical or moral imperative to maintain ASL as a language and not just a translation of another language? And then you have one person telling another person that there's something wrong with how they communicate their native language! Language overlapping with culture overlapping with disability (or different-ability?) overlapping with people being people. There's no easy answers. But it's fascinating.