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Unfortunately all alternative browsers on iOS are forced to use Safari's webview. So they can't fix rendering issues or, e.g. support newer WebRTC features than

Unfortunately all alternative browsers on iOS are forced to use Safari's webview. So they can't fix rendering issues or, e.g. support newer WebRTC features than stock Safari does.

mcfedr 6y ago
It's quite amazing no one is suing apple on this front yet. It would seem to be an easy case to make given the microsoft IE history
- suprfnk 6y ago
  Apple is not a monopoly and can do what it wants.
  - mhh__ 6y ago
    Trust != monopoly
    - selectodude 6y ago
      Apple isn't a trust either.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  Suing Apple for what, exactly? And no, as a user, I don't want Chrome on iOS. Here are just some of the reasons: https://webapicontroversy.com https://webapicontroversy.com
  - seppel 6y ago
    > And no, as a user, I don't want Chrome on iOS. Then don't install it. Seems to be quite simple.
    - cyrksoft 6y ago
      Then don't buy an iPhone. Seems to be quite simple ;)
      - bsaul 6y ago
        The problem is buying an iphone means i should be able to do whatever i want with it later on, including install additional software, such as browsers. Unlocked iOS versions do exists, and alternate app store like cydia exist as well, but it’s relying on people hacking security measures which shouldn’t be there in the first place.
        Someone 6y ago
        “The problem is buying an iphone means i should be able to do whatever i want with it later on, including install additional software” That’s an opinion. Apple has another one, and, AFAIK, doesn’t advertise that as a feature of their product. Some people argue Apple shouldn’t be allowed to sell such a product, but I don’t know of legal precedents for that (could be my lack of knowledge in this, of course) Certainly, the same situation exists for game consoles and, to a lesser extent because nobody can install additional software on them, cars, toasters, etc. (Cars may be even more similar. Tesla doesn’t give you the means to run your own self driving software on the hardware you bought, do they?)
        cyrksoft 6y ago
        Why should you be able to do whatever you want on it? This doesn't apply to many other products.
        LocalH 6y ago
        It does actually, in the context of personal usage. The vast majority of products have no such "after-purchase" restrictions. Why should a company have the right to restrict what I do with a device throughout its life at such a level, unless I am actively harming them? Should they be able to remove features? Brick devices? How far should that level of control go? That mindset is going to be the death of general purpose computing within the general public.
  - gpvos 6y ago
    Neither would I, but I would want Firefox (if I had an iOS device).
    - dmitriid 6y ago
      Yup, Firefox would be an alternative. However, if you allow Firefox (an alternative browser), you'd have to allow Chrome and others (also alternative browsers). I guess it's possible to allow an alternative browser with restrictions like "must include tracking protection" etc. But that's probably more hassle than it's worth.
      - gpvos 6y ago
        Ah yes, you mean Chrome might dominate iOS browsing by sheer power of existence, which is indeed likely and unwanted.
- carlosgj94 6y ago
  It's actually not Safari but WebKit. Gnome browser uses it as well (and a few others). I guess that makes it harder to sue? Since it's not a project that "belongs" to them?
  - capableweb 6y ago
    Last time I checked (maybe 2015 or something like that?), Apples contributors are about 50% of the total contributors to webkit. I used to have a script to aggregate the data, but doesn't work now and I have no time to fix it. Maybe someone else wanna give it a try? The list itself is here: https://webkit.org/team/ https://webkit.org/team/ / https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/Scripts/webkitpy/common/config/contributors.json https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/Scripts/webkitpy...
- matthewmacleod 6y ago
  It's not that amazing if you take a step back, have a look at the background of US vs MS, and understand the different positions of the market and the companies in question. I mean, you might be able to build a convincing case – but it's not at all as clear-cut as you seem to think.
toastal 6y ago
Push notifications, if not available everywhere, but inside user-installed PWAs would fix so many headache. Then again PWA support is general is purposefully abysmal from Apple.
kalleboo 6y ago
On the upside, that's the one thing keeping Google from completely 100% owning the web as a platform. Once you can install Blink on iOS, there is nothing left forcing program managers to keep "test on other browsers than Chrome" on their feature list, and even if Firefox would work fine, you'll get every single site requiring Chrome.
leokennis 6y ago
Isn’t the reason that, for quick JS execution, the JS executing process needs to be given access to low level system resources (ie a security risk), so Apple limits JS execution to just the code (WebKit) that they control? (I don’t know a lot about this subject...but that’s what I always understood).

Unfortunately all alternative browsers on iOS are forced to use Safari's webview. So they can't fix rendering issues or, e.g. support newer WebRTC features than stock Safari does.

mcfedr 6y ago

It's quite amazing no one is suing apple on this front yet. It would seem to be an easy case to make given the microsoft IE history

suprfnk 6y ago
Apple is not a monopoly and can do what it wants.
- mhh__ 6y ago
  Trust != monopoly
  - selectodude 6y ago
    Apple isn't a trust either.
dmitriid 6y ago
Suing Apple for what, exactly? And no, as a user, I don't want Chrome on iOS. Here are just some of the reasons: https://webapicontroversy.com https://webapicontroversy.com
- seppel 6y ago
  > And no, as a user, I don't want Chrome on iOS. Then don't install it. Seems to be quite simple.
  - cyrksoft 6y ago
    Then don't buy an iPhone. Seems to be quite simple ;)
    - bsaul 6y ago
      The problem is buying an iphone means i should be able to do whatever i want with it later on, including install additional software, such as browsers. Unlocked iOS versions do exists, and alternate app store like cydia exist as well, but it’s relying on people hacking security measures which shouldn’t be there in the first place.
      - Someone 6y ago
        “The problem is buying an iphone means i should be able to do whatever i want with it later on, including install additional software” That’s an opinion. Apple has another one, and, AFAIK, doesn’t advertise that as a feature of their product. Some people argue Apple shouldn’t be allowed to sell such a product, but I don’t know of legal precedents for that (could be my lack of knowledge in this, of course) Certainly, the same situation exists for game consoles and, to a lesser extent because nobody can install additional software on them, cars, toasters, etc. (Cars may be even more similar. Tesla doesn’t give you the means to run your own self driving software on the hardware you bought, do they?)
      - cyrksoft 6y ago
        Why should you be able to do whatever you want on it? This doesn't apply to many other products.
        LocalH 6y ago
        It does actually, in the context of personal usage. The vast majority of products have no such "after-purchase" restrictions. Why should a company have the right to restrict what I do with a device throughout its life at such a level, unless I am actively harming them? Should they be able to remove features? Brick devices? How far should that level of control go? That mindset is going to be the death of general purpose computing within the general public.
- gpvos 6y ago
  Neither would I, but I would want Firefox (if I had an iOS device).
  - dmitriid 6y ago
    Yup, Firefox would be an alternative. However, if you allow Firefox (an alternative browser), you'd have to allow Chrome and others (also alternative browsers). I guess it's possible to allow an alternative browser with restrictions like "must include tracking protection" etc. But that's probably more hassle than it's worth.
    - gpvos 6y ago
      Ah yes, you mean Chrome might dominate iOS browsing by sheer power of existence, which is indeed likely and unwanted.
carlosgj94 6y ago
It's actually not Safari but WebKit. Gnome browser uses it as well (and a few others). I guess that makes it harder to sue? Since it's not a project that "belongs" to them?
- capableweb 6y ago
  Last time I checked (maybe 2015 or something like that?), Apples contributors are about 50% of the total contributors to webkit. I used to have a script to aggregate the data, but doesn't work now and I have no time to fix it. Maybe someone else wanna give it a try? The list itself is here: https://webkit.org/team/ https://webkit.org/team/ / https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/Scripts/webkitpy/common/config/contributors.json https://trac.webkit.org/browser/trunk/Tools/Scripts/webkitpy...
matthewmacleod 6y ago
It's not that amazing if you take a step back, have a look at the background of US vs MS, and understand the different positions of the market and the companies in question. I mean, you might be able to build a convincing case – but it's not at all as clear-cut as you seem to think.

toastal 6y ago

Push notifications, if not available everywhere, but inside user-installed PWAs would fix so many headache. Then again PWA support is general is purposefully abysmal from Apple.

kalleboo 6y ago

On the upside, that's the one thing keeping Google from completely 100% owning the web as a platform. Once you can install Blink on iOS, there is nothing left forcing program managers to keep "test on other browsers than Chrome" on their feature list, and even if Firefox would work fine, you'll get every single site requiring Chrome.

leokennis 6y ago

Isn’t the reason that, for quick JS execution, the JS executing process needs to be given access to low level system resources (ie a security risk), so Apple limits JS execution to just the code (WebKit) that they control? (I don’t know a lot about this subject...but that’s what I always understood).