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No.. This is not a good idea. Sure there is merit to them being "coordinated and continuous workers", I can see the argument for that regardless of the gig eco

No.. This is not a good idea. Sure there is merit to them being "coordinated and continuous workers", I can see the argument for that regardless of the gig economy. But having to back-pay the taxes for said workers is close to extortion. My Middle ground would be a mediator instead of an ultimatum. > Should the platforms hire all 60,000 couriers, there's a high price to pay to catch up on previous, missed social security payments, said European labor law specialist Luca de Vecchi. Social security contributions in Italy can amount to up to 33 percent of an employee's salary and must be paid by the employer. This is just crazy.. How can the government expect a company to backpay what the government allowed in the past ? This is wrong.

jdsully 6y ago
If you wrongly classify an employee as a contractor the IRS will go after you for back payroll taxes. It's not extortion, its collecting taxes you illegally avoided.
- bilekas 6y ago
  Think about what you just said.. If it was okay to be classed as a contractor in FY2018, then the legislative said no you need to backpay. FY2018 is no longer valid.. Even though, they approved it, IRS accepted. See my point ? You cant retrospectively change the status of their work status. You didn't wrongly state your status at the time..
  - zepto 6y ago
    The IRS doesn’t ‘approve’ anything by accepting your tax return. They accept your statement as a fair representation. They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things.
    - bilekas 6y ago
      1) You're wrong, whoever you return your taxes through if not direct to the IRS (which is rare) needs approval of schema and structure. Their workflow engine is not deisigned to retroactively change you from a contractor to an employee. Also Who cares about the IRS, this is Italy. Get over yourself. 2) > They accept your statement as a fair representation. Yup.. At the time, see above, FY2018 you were supposed to register as a self employed, now you need to register as employed, cool.. But Wait you need to pay last years tax as an employed too. Nonsense. Whoever you filed with owes you in this case, but I don't know why they would pay based on a retro change. 3) > They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. There was no misrepresentation at the time. That's the point. > Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things. It's called audits and its out of the scope or concern for this discussion.
      - zepto 6y ago
        > Also Who cares about the IRS, this is Italy. Get over yourself. You were talking about the IRS in the comment I responded to. > Get over yourself This is against HN guidelines. Please be civil. 2) > They accept your statement as a fair representation. > Yup.. At the time, see above, FY2018 you were supposed to register as a self employed, now you need to register as employed, cool.. But Wait you need to pay last years tax as an employed too. Nonsense. Whoever you filed with owes you in this case, but I don't know why they would pay based on a retro change. No. You sign your own return even if you have a tax preparer. Misfilings are your responsibility. If it’s just a good faith error, usually there won’t be a fine, but if you owe more taxes you will have to pay them. Re-fillings to correct errors are a normal procedure. 3) > They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. There was no misrepresentation at the time. That's the point. The article says there was. > Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things. It's called audits and its out of the scope or concern for this discussion. What an odd thing to say. An audit is the process of checking and correcting errors in tax filings when problems are suspected.
      - gamblor956 6y ago
lwkl 6y ago
The government never allowed it. The company is responsible for correctly paying social security of their employees and correctly classifying their employment status. Wrongfully classifying someone as self-employed is illegal and the company will have to pay the social security contributions they missed. This has nothing to do with taxation. It's crazy how a company hire 60'000 employees and not know the labor laws of the country they operate in. Every private person that hires a house cleaner has to know and follow these laws.
- bilekas 6y ago
  > The government never allowed it. Pull the other leg. It works once it works for them until now ? ? You're either not paying attention to the article, or you're set in your ways, which id love to hear. > The company is responsible for correctly paying social security of their employees Fine.. But that was not the agreement drivers had when they signed up. They signed up for cash on the job, gig economy. I'm not saying its good, I do think it should be unionized, but you guys are defending the same companies that are going to give the costs onto the riders. Morons. Not seeing the trees for the forest. YC
  - lwkl 6y ago
    > Pull the other leg. It works once it works for them until now ? ? You're either not paying attention to the article, or you're set in your ways, which id love to hear. That's not an excuse. If someone is caught for murder and during the investigation it is discovered that they murdered 60 people over the last 5 years. Should they only be prosecuted for the most recent murder because it worked for them until they got caught? > Fine.. But that was not the agreement drivers had when they signed up. They signed up for cash on the job, gig economy. Exactly but the agreement the drivers signed falsely classified them as contractors. This is called false self-employment [1]. So the courts decided gig workers are classified as employees according to current laws which means the employer was acting illegally. These laws exist because food delivery apps aren't the first to try to get out of paying social security and other obligations from having employees by declaring they are contractors. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment

jdsully 6y ago

If you wrongly classify an employee as a contractor the IRS will go after you for back payroll taxes. It's not extortion, its collecting taxes you illegally avoided.

bilekas 6y ago
Think about what you just said.. If it was okay to be classed as a contractor in FY2018, then the legislative said no you need to backpay. FY2018 is no longer valid.. Even though, they approved it, IRS accepted. See my point ? You cant retrospectively change the status of their work status. You didn't wrongly state your status at the time..
- zepto 6y ago
  The IRS doesn’t ‘approve’ anything by accepting your tax return. They accept your statement as a fair representation. They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things.
  - bilekas 6y ago
    1) You're wrong, whoever you return your taxes through if not direct to the IRS (which is rare) needs approval of schema and structure. Their workflow engine is not deisigned to retroactively change you from a contractor to an employee. Also Who cares about the IRS, this is Italy. Get over yourself. 2) > They accept your statement as a fair representation. Yup.. At the time, see above, FY2018 you were supposed to register as a self employed, now you need to register as employed, cool.. But Wait you need to pay last years tax as an employed too. Nonsense. Whoever you filed with owes you in this case, but I don't know why they would pay based on a retro change. 3) > They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. There was no misrepresentation at the time. That's the point. > Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things. It's called audits and its out of the scope or concern for this discussion.
    - zepto 6y ago
      > Also Who cares about the IRS, this is Italy. Get over yourself. You were talking about the IRS in the comment I responded to. > Get over yourself This is against HN guidelines. Please be civil. 2) > They accept your statement as a fair representation. > Yup.. At the time, see above, FY2018 you were supposed to register as a self employed, now you need to register as employed, cool.. But Wait you need to pay last years tax as an employed too. Nonsense. Whoever you filed with owes you in this case, but I don't know why they would pay based on a retro change. No. You sign your own return even if you have a tax preparer. Misfilings are your responsibility. If it’s just a good faith error, usually there won’t be a fine, but if you owe more taxes you will have to pay them. Re-fillings to correct errors are a normal procedure. 3) > They can always go back and change things if you made a misrepresentation. There was no misrepresentation at the time. That's the point. The article says there was. > Typically in the US both individuals and businesses are expected to keep records for 7 years, in case the IRS wants to check things. It's called audits and its out of the scope or concern for this discussion. What an odd thing to say. An audit is the process of checking and correcting errors in tax filings when problems are suspected.
    - gamblor956 6y ago

lwkl 6y ago

The government never allowed it. The company is responsible for correctly paying social security of their employees and correctly classifying their employment status. Wrongfully classifying someone as self-employed is illegal and the company will have to pay the social security contributions they missed. This has nothing to do with taxation. It's crazy how a company hire 60'000 employees and not know the labor laws of the country they operate in. Every private person that hires a house cleaner has to know and follow these laws.

bilekas 6y ago
> The government never allowed it. Pull the other leg. It works once it works for them until now ? ? You're either not paying attention to the article, or you're set in your ways, which id love to hear. > The company is responsible for correctly paying social security of their employees Fine.. But that was not the agreement drivers had when they signed up. They signed up for cash on the job, gig economy. I'm not saying its good, I do think it should be unionized, but you guys are defending the same companies that are going to give the costs onto the riders. Morons. Not seeing the trees for the forest. YC
- lwkl 6y ago
  > Pull the other leg. It works once it works for them until now ? ? You're either not paying attention to the article, or you're set in your ways, which id love to hear. That's not an excuse. If someone is caught for murder and during the investigation it is discovered that they murdered 60 people over the last 5 years. Should they only be prosecuted for the most recent murder because it worked for them until they got caught? > Fine.. But that was not the agreement drivers had when they signed up. They signed up for cash on the job, gig economy. Exactly but the agreement the drivers signed falsely classified them as contractors. This is called false self-employment [1]. So the courts decided gig workers are classified as employees according to current laws which means the employer was acting illegally. These laws exist because food delivery apps aren't the first to try to get out of paying social security and other obligations from having employees by declaring they are contractors. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_self-employment