4 ms·

CP/M needed a disk to function. If this is ported to machines that could load from tape, it would be very fun for machines like the msx or speccy.

djmips 6y ago
Or the plethora of homebrew Z80 computers that I see people making today.
- codebje 6y ago
  Making the highly custom build scripts work for your homebrew Z80 is usually more trouble than it's worth. CP/Mish uses a niche (like, niche even compared to compiling for Z80 at all) compiler and Lua build scripts. Many of the applications have platform specific code and need to be ported as well. A project like this is a useful reference point, but rarely directly usable.
  - david-given 6y ago
    8080 compiler, actually, and I'm only using the ACK because there are no other 8080 C compilers. If you know of any others, please tell me!
    - codebje 6y ago
      Ah, I'd missed that you're supporting the 8080. I don't know of any others, no. Just in case you get the wrong idea: I'm very grateful that you put CP/Mish out there. My Z80 retroboard project benefited from it (I used the ZCPR1/ZSDOS .rel outputs directly in my board's emulator, plus the project served as a useful reference source) with no contribution back. I don't think it would have helped anyone if I'd tried to make it support my board in your build process. There's one of my board in the world, with zero users now I'm working with its replacement design. I already had a BIOS written for zasm, and no removable storage (socketed ROM might count as removable I guess) so I wasn't trying to build a bootable disk image. If, say, I had a vintage Model IV and wanted to make disks for it, it might be a different story, but for a retrobrew z80 machine it's a good reference but IMO not a good basis for the software part of the project.
Zardoz84 6y ago
the ZX Spectrum +2 and +3 could run a CP/M version
- marcodiego 6y ago
  But it needed a disk, right?
  - UncleSlacky 6y ago
    Yes, but the +3 had a built-in disk drive (3 inch).
retrac 6y ago
You could probably run CP/M from a memory image loaded from tape. But what would be the point? The only thing CP/M supports is disk and console I/O. If an application can run under CP/M without disk support, you're probably better off just porting it directly to the bare metal.
tyingq 6y ago
I know that FlashFloppy has MSX and Spectrum support. So adding a cheap GoTek virtual floppy is an option. It's pretty damn handy anyway to be able to use a USB stick as a virtual floppy, and the GoTek drives are cheap. https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy
jhbadger 6y ago
There was at least one CP/M machine that used tape -- the Epson PX-8 Geneva (an early laptop that had a built in micro-cassette drive). Although it had CP/M in built in ROM and also had the ability to use ROM cartridges like a game console in order to load applications like WordStar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_PX-8_Geneva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_PX-8_Geneva
- david-given 6y ago
  I have a PX-8. It does work with tape, but very badly --- it's slow even for tape and painfully limited. It emulated a disk on tape, with automatic winding for access to multiple files, and required mounting/dismounting tapes or else you lost data. It was just about good enough for loading and saving Basic programs, but only just. Using it with CP/M is an exercise in frustration.
tssva 6y ago
The Coleco Adam could run CP/M from tape.
- marcodiego 6y ago
  Source?
  - tssva 6y ago
    My primary source is my own experience. I used CP/M loaded from tape on the Coleco Adam. My best friend at the time was unfortunate enough to have his parents buy one for their home computer. Google or your search engine of choice is your friend here. The tapes for the Adam were referred to as Digital Data Packs. They were standard cassette tapes with some extra holes. If you were handy you could turn a standard tape cassette into a DDP saving yourself some money. Data was stored on them in a digital format consisting of 2 tracks with 128 sectors. The tape drives were built directly into the Adam and it directly controlled them allowing it to access specific sectors on the tape as needed. In other words it had the same track and sector access ability as a floppy. This is what allowed it to run CP/M from tape. When CP/M was booted from tape the 1st tape drive was CP/M drive A and the 2nd tape drive was drive B.

djmips 6y ago

Or the plethora of homebrew Z80 computers that I see people making today.

codebje 6y ago
Making the highly custom build scripts work for your homebrew Z80 is usually more trouble than it's worth. CP/Mish uses a niche (like, niche even compared to compiling for Z80 at all) compiler and Lua build scripts. Many of the applications have platform specific code and need to be ported as well. A project like this is a useful reference point, but rarely directly usable.
- david-given 6y ago
  8080 compiler, actually, and I'm only using the ACK because there are no other 8080 C compilers. If you know of any others, please tell me!
  - codebje 6y ago
    Ah, I'd missed that you're supporting the 8080. I don't know of any others, no. Just in case you get the wrong idea: I'm very grateful that you put CP/Mish out there. My Z80 retroboard project benefited from it (I used the ZCPR1/ZSDOS .rel outputs directly in my board's emulator, plus the project served as a useful reference source) with no contribution back. I don't think it would have helped anyone if I'd tried to make it support my board in your build process. There's one of my board in the world, with zero users now I'm working with its replacement design. I already had a BIOS written for zasm, and no removable storage (socketed ROM might count as removable I guess) so I wasn't trying to build a bootable disk image. If, say, I had a vintage Model IV and wanted to make disks for it, it might be a different story, but for a retrobrew z80 machine it's a good reference but IMO not a good basis for the software part of the project.

Zardoz84 6y ago

the ZX Spectrum +2 and +3 could run a CP/M version

marcodiego 6y ago
But it needed a disk, right?
- UncleSlacky 6y ago
  Yes, but the +3 had a built-in disk drive (3 inch).

retrac 6y ago

You could probably run CP/M from a memory image loaded from tape. But what would be the point? The only thing CP/M supports is disk and console I/O. If an application can run under CP/M without disk support, you're probably better off just porting it directly to the bare metal.

tyingq 6y ago

I know that FlashFloppy has MSX and Spectrum support. So adding a cheap GoTek virtual floppy is an option. It's pretty damn handy anyway to be able to use a USB stick as a virtual floppy, and the GoTek drives are cheap. https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy

jhbadger 6y ago

There was at least one CP/M machine that used tape -- the Epson PX-8 Geneva (an early laptop that had a built in micro-cassette drive). Although it had CP/M in built in ROM and also had the ability to use ROM cartridges like a game console in order to load applications like WordStar. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_PX-8_Geneva https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epson_PX-8_Geneva

david-given 6y ago
I have a PX-8. It does work with tape, but very badly --- it's slow even for tape and painfully limited. It emulated a disk on tape, with automatic winding for access to multiple files, and required mounting/dismounting tapes or else you lost data. It was just about good enough for loading and saving Basic programs, but only just. Using it with CP/M is an exercise in frustration.

tssva 6y ago

The Coleco Adam could run CP/M from tape.

marcodiego 6y ago
Source?
- tssva 6y ago
  My primary source is my own experience. I used CP/M loaded from tape on the Coleco Adam. My best friend at the time was unfortunate enough to have his parents buy one for their home computer. Google or your search engine of choice is your friend here. The tapes for the Adam were referred to as Digital Data Packs. They were standard cassette tapes with some extra holes. If you were handy you could turn a standard tape cassette into a DDP saving yourself some money. Data was stored on them in a digital format consisting of 2 tracks with 128 sectors. The tape drives were built directly into the Adam and it directly controlled them allowing it to access specific sectors on the tape as needed. In other words it had the same track and sector access ability as a floppy. This is what allowed it to run CP/M from tape. When CP/M was booted from tape the 1st tape drive was CP/M drive A and the 2nd tape drive was drive B.