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It's really not that useful for Apple to collect analytics because they make physical products, where the potential of analytics is limited. When it comes to a

by pcstl 6y ago

It's really not that useful for Apple to collect analytics because they make physical products, where the potential of analytics is limited. When it comes to a SaaS or a web page, the possibilities of analytics are much greater. And yet, Macs will still send usage and performance data to Apple so they can incorporate that information into future product versions and find out about system software issues.

musicale 6y ago
And you can turn it off. ;-) I guess the point is not that crash reports and slowdown data aren't useful (they are), but that they tend to give you incremental improvements. That being said, incremental improvements over a decade can make a big difference, as Apple also demonstrates.
- pcstl 6y ago
  I guess we can all agree that if someone wants to include analytics in their product, an opt-out would be nice.
  - XCSme 6y ago
    Well, you can't really opt-out of all analytics. It's really hard to completely stop all server logs, or them tracking how many purchases you make (eg. invoices). Where exactly do we draw the line to what's core for a company to track in order to run their business and what can be opt-out?
bigiain 6y ago
We're pretty deep in a single thread here, but the original article isn't saying "don't use analytics", it's saying "don't use Google Analytics". Your SaaS or webpage probably gathers 80% of what Google Analytics does in your log files. It could without doubt provide deeper insights that GA is capable of by adding your own behaviour tracking code (which can be written with the understanding of your specific problem dom ain, rather than be an "everything to everybody" generalised solution). Nobody is suggesting we shouldn't collect usage and performance data, the thesis here is that we shouldn't send all that directly to the worlds most profitable advertising agency, just because they'll draw us some pretty graphs for free.
- JimDabell 6y ago
  > the original article isn't saying "don't use analytics", it's saying "don't use Google Analytics". > Nobody is suggesting we shouldn't collect usage and performance data This thread degenerated into an argument because somebody stated outright: > Don't use analytics at all but focus on your product. That’s what people in this thread are arguing against – don’t use analytics at all – not the subject of the article, don’t use Google Analytics.

by pcstl 6y ago

musicale 6y ago

And you can turn it off. ;-) I guess the point is not that crash reports and slowdown data aren't useful (they are), but that they tend to give you incremental improvements. That being said, incremental improvements over a decade can make a big difference, as Apple also demonstrates.

pcstl 6y ago
I guess we can all agree that if someone wants to include analytics in their product, an opt-out would be nice.
- XCSme 6y ago
  Well, you can't really opt-out of all analytics. It's really hard to completely stop all server logs, or them tracking how many purchases you make (eg. invoices). Where exactly do we draw the line to what's core for a company to track in order to run their business and what can be opt-out?

bigiain 6y ago

We're pretty deep in a single thread here, but the original article isn't saying "don't use analytics", it's saying "don't use Google Analytics". Your SaaS or webpage probably gathers 80% of what Google Analytics does in your log files. It could without doubt provide deeper insights that GA is capable of by adding your own behaviour tracking code (which can be written with the understanding of your specific problem dom ain, rather than be an "everything to everybody" generalised solution). Nobody is suggesting we shouldn't collect usage and performance data, the thesis here is that we shouldn't send all that directly to the worlds most profitable advertising agency, just because they'll draw us some pretty graphs for free.

JimDabell 6y ago
> the original article isn't saying "don't use analytics", it's saying "don't use Google Analytics". > Nobody is suggesting we shouldn't collect usage and performance data This thread degenerated into an argument because somebody stated outright: > Don't use analytics at all but focus on your product. That’s what people in this thread are arguing against – don’t use analytics at all – not the subject of the article, don’t use Google Analytics.