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Are people just upvoting this because they don’t like Bitcoin? I don’t like Bitcoin either but none of these are original arguments and this looks like an ad fo

by paulgb 6y ago

Are people just upvoting this because they don’t like Bitcoin? I don’t like Bitcoin either but none of these are original arguments and this looks like an ad for a different cryptocurrency I’ve never heard of.

tablespoon 6y ago
> this looks like an ad for a different cryptocurrency I’ve never heard of. I think Taler is this: https://taler.net/en/ https://taler.net/en/. It's a GNU project, and I don't think it's a cryptocurrency. Recently discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26261314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26261314
- paulgb 6y ago
  Ah, my apologies to the author if they were not trying to pump their own portfolio. I guess I’m a bit jaded by this type of post.
  - kordlessagain 6y ago
    It's a crappy article, so there's that.
    - rainmaking 6y ago
      No it's not. It's a really good article. It's just different from the kind of stuff you usually consume.
kitkat_new 6y ago
no worries: it's not yet another currency that wants to find people investing in it
tronbabylove 6y ago
I also don't have a strong opinion on Bitcoin, but the author's argument seems flawed. Yes, running power stations and manufacturing chips requires the protection of a government; yes, Bitcoin mining depends on the existence of power and chips, and therefore indirectly on a functional government. But I don't see how you get from "Bitcoin mining stops if the government doesn't exist" to "So the government might as well be the arbiter of all transactions."
- paulgb 6y ago
  Exactly. Especially since there is more than one government. Now, if they wanted to make the argument that after 3-5 more halvings the competitiveness of mining will drop to a level where any G7 nation could run a 51% attack and barely notice, I’d be captivated :)
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    This might be a framing issue? Bitcoin itself might not be beholden to any government. But I don't really care about Bitcoin itself. It's just a protocol. It doesn't have feelings or financial interests. Individuals who use Bitcoin, though, are, in some absolute sense, no less beholden to their government simply by using Bitcoin. An economy can always be built on top of exchange of physical goods, including but not necessarily limited to banknotes, without the government's consent. But any transaction that needs to go over the Internet can more-or-less only happen at the pleasure of whoever controls the Internet in your area. Which, if you're living somewhere where authoritarianism is a serious concern, is probably the government.
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Good point.
  - tromp 6y ago
    I expect transaction fees will dominate the block reward within 4 halvings, as they are already within an order of magnitude of the block subsidy...
    - paulgb 6y ago
      Yes, they’ll dominate, but will they stay high enough to maintain the current level of security? Average transaction fees would have to go up ~8x in real dollar terms to do so, meanwhile if Layer 2 solutions take off there could be downward pressure from existing levels.
- rich_sasha 6y ago
mumblemumble 6y ago
I personally don't agree with the author, but I upvoted anyway, purely because I want to see what comes out of the ensuing conversation.
- gruez 6y ago
  Cryptocurrency discussions pop up multiple times a week. We really don't need to upvote garbage articles just so we can have another one.
  - mumblemumble 6y ago
    Mostly it's just an argument over whether it's a rocket to the moon or a ponzi scheme. This seemed like it could foster a more interesting discussion than the usual stuff. Maybe even some interesting comments on Taler? A kid can hope...
    - yownie 6y ago
      >Maybe even some interesting comments on Taler? gotta be interesting to begin with the have interesting commentary

by paulgb 6y ago

tablespoon 6y ago

> this looks like an ad for a different cryptocurrency I’ve never heard of. I think Taler is this: https://taler.net/en/ https://taler.net/en/. It's a GNU project, and I don't think it's a cryptocurrency. Recently discussed: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26261314 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26261314

paulgb 6y ago
Ah, my apologies to the author if they were not trying to pump their own portfolio. I guess I’m a bit jaded by this type of post.
- kordlessagain 6y ago
  It's a crappy article, so there's that.
  - rainmaking 6y ago
    No it's not. It's a really good article. It's just different from the kind of stuff you usually consume.

kitkat_new 6y ago

no worries: it's not yet another currency that wants to find people investing in it

tronbabylove 6y ago

I also don't have a strong opinion on Bitcoin, but the author's argument seems flawed. Yes, running power stations and manufacturing chips requires the protection of a government; yes, Bitcoin mining depends on the existence of power and chips, and therefore indirectly on a functional government. But I don't see how you get from "Bitcoin mining stops if the government doesn't exist" to "So the government might as well be the arbiter of all transactions."

paulgb 6y ago
Exactly. Especially since there is more than one government. Now, if they wanted to make the argument that after 3-5 more halvings the competitiveness of mining will drop to a level where any G7 nation could run a 51% attack and barely notice, I’d be captivated :)
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  This might be a framing issue? Bitcoin itself might not be beholden to any government. But I don't really care about Bitcoin itself. It's just a protocol. It doesn't have feelings or financial interests. Individuals who use Bitcoin, though, are, in some absolute sense, no less beholden to their government simply by using Bitcoin. An economy can always be built on top of exchange of physical goods, including but not necessarily limited to banknotes, without the government's consent. But any transaction that needs to go over the Internet can more-or-less only happen at the pleasure of whoever controls the Internet in your area. Which, if you're living somewhere where authoritarianism is a serious concern, is probably the government.
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Good point.
- tromp 6y ago
  I expect transaction fees will dominate the block reward within 4 halvings, as they are already within an order of magnitude of the block subsidy...
  - paulgb 6y ago
    Yes, they’ll dominate, but will they stay high enough to maintain the current level of security? Average transaction fees would have to go up ~8x in real dollar terms to do so, meanwhile if Layer 2 solutions take off there could be downward pressure from existing levels.
rich_sasha 6y ago

mumblemumble 6y ago

I personally don't agree with the author, but I upvoted anyway, purely because I want to see what comes out of the ensuing conversation.

gruez 6y ago
Cryptocurrency discussions pop up multiple times a week. We really don't need to upvote garbage articles just so we can have another one.
- mumblemumble 6y ago
  Mostly it's just an argument over whether it's a rocket to the moon or a ponzi scheme. This seemed like it could foster a more interesting discussion than the usual stuff. Maybe even some interesting comments on Taler? A kid can hope...
  - yownie 6y ago
    >Maybe even some interesting comments on Taler? gotta be interesting to begin with the have interesting commentary