4 ms·

What happens to the people who didn't want to pay in, if the union does get set up? Will they be forced to have money taken from them to continue working there?

What happens to the people who didn't want to pay in, if the union does get set up? Will they be forced to have money taken from them to continue working there? I'd probably quit if some organization suddenly started siphoning my paycheck. Sure unionize if you want, and I'll strike with you over issues, but that doesn't require my payment to accomplish. I am very thankful to live in a right to work state where nobody can forcibly steal the fruits of my labor.

ketzo 6y ago
Unions don't ask for dues just to grift you. At a minimum, any half-competent union should be able to tell you how they're going to get you more than your dues in value from the union. This could be actual increased pay, benefits, or other value from collective organization. No one is trying to steal anything from you. Unions are for workers. If you think Amazon is in your corner more than a union would be, I would consider reevaluating that idea.\ All that said: almost no unionized workplace that I know of has a situation where you are required to be part of the union to work there, so no, you won't be forced. For example, U.S. federal employees have huge, long-lived unions with a lot of prominence, and only 26% of federal employees actually belong to a union.
- tor11 6y ago
  > Unions are for workers funny.
  - ketzo 6y ago
    ....why? I understand that there are shitty unions out there. But my statement seems pretty factual for the idea of unions as a whole.
    - tor12 6y ago
      unions are usually used for lobbying and opinion.
- abstractbarista 6y ago
  Thanks for clearing this up for me. I was under the impression that if a union was started where I work, I could be forced to pay in if I want to remain employed there. Amazon certainly isn't on the side of its workers. No company is. They want maximum work for minimum pay. Workers want maximum pay for minimum work. I've always found the labor market to be an entertaining fight between the two. I think the part hanging me up most is what the dues could go to. Theoretically speaking, I'm down to pay some folks to represent me and fight in meetings with <employer>. But, I don't believe in paying dues to keep members afloat when they're not working (striking, etc.). I believe that's my responsibility to stay solvent. All my life I've forced myself to spend far less than I make in pursuit of this.
  - ketzo 6y ago
    I'm absolutely not a lawyer or a union expert; I'm just some guy on an orange website, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. But the sentiment you're expressing is one of the #1 tools in the anti-union-propaganda belt, and for good reason: nobody wants to be forced! Honestly, you're the kind of person who would be really helpful in a union meeting! You bring up great points: some industries really need to be able to pay people to strike, but others don't. Where do we fit in (whoever "we" is)? And knowing where your dues are going is important; anybody trying to hide that kind of information is immediately suspect. > All my life I've forced myself to spend far less than I make in pursuit of [solvency]. Not to go totally Marxist on you... but some would say that this is because you live in a deeply capitalist, anti-worker society, and that strong unions are just one piece in a potential society-wide safety net that would mean people could just spend the money they make without having to worry about sudden and catastrophic destitution. In an ideal world, I personally would love if people who found themselves out of work had a third party (potentially comprised of other workers in their field) that could support them while they got back on their feet.
db48x 6y ago
Yea, in most states you can't be forced to join a union, and dues are for the maintenance of the union. Only members pay for it.
- s1artibartfast 6y ago
  A slim majority of 27/50 states. Even in those states, non-union employees can be forced to pay the union "agency fees" for representation costs, but not dues which can be spent on political agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#:~:text=In%20the%20context%20of%20U.S.,between%20employers%20and%20labor%20unions.&text=Right%2Dto%2Dwork%20laws%20(,Midwestern%2C%20and%20interior%20Western%20states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#:~:text=In%2....
  - pseudalopex 6y ago
    You're confused. 27 states allow paying nothing. 23 states allow agency fees. Federal law prohibits charging non members for political activities.
    - s1artibartfast 6y ago
      Thank you for the correction!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

ketzo 6y ago

Unions don't ask for dues just to grift you. At a minimum, any half-competent union should be able to tell you how they're going to get you more than your dues in value from the union. This could be actual increased pay, benefits, or other value from collective organization. No one is trying to steal anything from you. Unions are for workers. If you think Amazon is in your corner more than a union would be, I would consider reevaluating that idea.\ All that said: almost no unionized workplace that I know of has a situation where you are required to be part of the union to work there, so no, you won't be forced. For example, U.S. federal employees have huge, long-lived unions with a lot of prominence, and only 26% of federal employees actually belong to a union.

tor11 6y ago
> Unions are for workers funny.
- ketzo 6y ago
  ....why? I understand that there are shitty unions out there. But my statement seems pretty factual for the idea of unions as a whole.
  - tor12 6y ago
    unions are usually used for lobbying and opinion.
abstractbarista 6y ago
Thanks for clearing this up for me. I was under the impression that if a union was started where I work, I could be forced to pay in if I want to remain employed there. Amazon certainly isn't on the side of its workers. No company is. They want maximum work for minimum pay. Workers want maximum pay for minimum work. I've always found the labor market to be an entertaining fight between the two. I think the part hanging me up most is what the dues could go to. Theoretically speaking, I'm down to pay some folks to represent me and fight in meetings with <employer>. But, I don't believe in paying dues to keep members afloat when they're not working (striking, etc.). I believe that's my responsibility to stay solvent. All my life I've forced myself to spend far less than I make in pursuit of this.
- ketzo 6y ago
  I'm absolutely not a lawyer or a union expert; I'm just some guy on an orange website, so take everything I say with a grain of salt. But the sentiment you're expressing is one of the #1 tools in the anti-union-propaganda belt, and for good reason: nobody wants to be forced! Honestly, you're the kind of person who would be really helpful in a union meeting! You bring up great points: some industries really need to be able to pay people to strike, but others don't. Where do we fit in (whoever "we" is)? And knowing where your dues are going is important; anybody trying to hide that kind of information is immediately suspect. > All my life I've forced myself to spend far less than I make in pursuit of [solvency]. Not to go totally Marxist on you... but some would say that this is because you live in a deeply capitalist, anti-worker society, and that strong unions are just one piece in a potential society-wide safety net that would mean people could just spend the money they make without having to worry about sudden and catastrophic destitution. In an ideal world, I personally would love if people who found themselves out of work had a third party (potentially comprised of other workers in their field) that could support them while they got back on their feet.

db48x 6y ago

Yea, in most states you can't be forced to join a union, and dues are for the maintenance of the union. Only members pay for it.

s1artibartfast 6y ago
A slim majority of 27/50 states. Even in those states, non-union employees can be forced to pay the union "agency fees" for representation costs, but not dues which can be spent on political agenda. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#:~:text=In%20the%20context%20of%20U.S.,between%20employers%20and%20labor%20unions.&text=Right%2Dto%2Dwork%20laws%20(,Midwestern%2C%20and%20interior%20Western%20states https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Right-to-work_law#:~:text=In%2....
- pseudalopex 6y ago
  You're confused. 27 states allow paying nothing. 23 states allow agency fees. Federal law prohibits charging non members for political activities.
  - s1artibartfast 6y ago
    Thank you for the correction!

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]