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I'm surprised that the energy usage axis does not come up in this summary of his thoughts. Isn't that likely to be a factor in bitcoin's growth and long-term su
by ra88it 6y ago
I'm surprised that the energy usage axis does not come up in this summary of his thoughts. Isn't that likely to be a factor in bitcoin's growth and long-term survival?
- rafale 6y agoI can see Bitcoin hardfork to POS once the tech has been proven in Ethereum. Bitcoiners only care about the 21 millions hard cap and a secure network, not the exact consensus algorithm used.
- christiansakai 6y agoCardano will prove PoS sooner than Ethereum, and it has hard cap. Yes I am a Cardano shiller.
- agotterer 6y agoCardano has already demonstrated that it's working. The network is currently 86% decentralized and on Mar 31st will be 100% decentralized.
- christiansakai 6y agoYes, exciting times ahead.
- solosoyokaze 6y agoHow would you recommend acquiring Cardano? Is there an exchange you can buy it on?
- christiansakai 6y agoYou can just get it in majority of exchanges. In case your exchange doesn't support it (like me, Coinbase and Gemini, NYC, don't support Cardano), just use swapping service like changenow.io, so buy ETH from Coinbase and use changenow.io to swap it to ADA I've been using changenow.io and it always works. As always, don't send in really large transaction, but one by one, maybe like 3000 ADA each time (this is what I do).
- solosoyokaze 6y agoThank you, this is great information.
- christiansakai 6y agoYou're welcome, pass it on. I got it also from someone else when I wondering how I could buy ADA.
- kinghajj 6y agoPoS isn't as secure as PoW, though. I'd imagine the majority of BTC nodes would reject updating to a fork that removed PoW.
- agotterer 6y agoI agree. The miners have no incentive to switch to PoS and share the rewards with all participating holders.
- arebop 6y agoNo, the energy usage is proportional to its economic value. If energy prices go up or down while nothing else changes, bitcoin's energy usage will go inversely. If bitcoin's value goes up or down while nothing else changes, energy usage will go the same.
- nfin 6y agoyou missed the elephant in the room: bitcoin can almost double (2x) in value every 4 years without an increase of energy usage by miners (if you put a wide enough filter) - I guess most understand that the reason is the supply halving finding place every 210.000 blocks (roughly 4 years), and nothing to do with technology/moore's law or anything else - this will probably be true (more or less... lets say 1.8x -2x) for another 2 halvings - then the rate [1] will decrease from about 2x to 1x while fees rapidly start to be the predominant source of revenue to miners, and less and less the newly minted coins) [1]: rate of possible increase in value for the same amount of energy consumed
- wmf 6y agoThat's not good enough. Even a $10T market cap doesn't justify 6 GW of power consumption when PoS would consume effectively zero.
- kinghajj 6y agoPoW uses energy consumption for security. PoS uses staking for security. Every analysis I've seen agrees that PoW is more secure than PoS, precisely because of the energy requirements. Those who favor PoS argue that it's still secure "enough"; those who favor PoW disagree and prefer the increased security it brings.
- nfin 6y agoHere something to read for those really interested in knowing both sides of the argument (PoW side in this case, as the potential benefits of PoS are clear to everyone): https://medium.com/coinmonks/blockchain-myth-5-proof-of-work-wastes-energy-a848000aea9a https://medium.com/coinmonks/blockchain-myth-5-proof-of-work... https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ https://www.truthcoin.info/blog/pow-cheapest/ https://medium.com/coinmonks/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake-for-real-idiots-a23ac4565649 https://medium.com/coinmonks/proof-of-work-vs-proof-of-stake... That's a bit to read, but not a topic that one should just think he knows about (and these articles have quite a lot of overlap)
- vmception 6y agono? if there was some successful state-sponsored or populist uprising against bitcoin’s energy then the energy use will decrease and bitcoin will continue functioning as normal it just incentivizes more efficient hardware or lower yield for miners the network can decrease in difficulty or have steady difficulty forever the value that the network can support is still several orders of magnitude higher, and there are at a lot of gigawatts of energy to tap into before it reaches said maximum
- seaman1921 6y agoyou can't support <something negative> saying it would encourage people to develop ways to prevent it
- vmception 6y agoyou say that but that’s how electronics work you are limiting one variable: power consumption, and people will have to work around that tighter than they already do
- leereeves 6y agoIf there's an uprising about Bitcoin's energy usage in the USA (just for example), neither the US gov nor people will be able to force miners in, say, China to use less energy. But that might provide a good excuse for the government to regulate Bitcoin in whatever way they choose.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- akyu 6y agoIt will be a huge factor. If you want to know why, look into ESG mandates.