3 ms·

Do you not have the imagination to think of any situation where the majority of workers may want something that's not in your interests? Consensus-building and

Do you not have the imagination to think of any situation where the majority of workers may want something that's not in your interests? Consensus-building and making of viable compromises has always been part of governance, any institution comprises people with diverse, sometimes competing interests. That said, the usual workplace conflict between employee and management is about working conditions and promotion. And for that it's useful to have a paid witness on your side, because HR is always working for the employer. Codes of conduct are fashionable these days, but at the end of the day they are upheld by HR, which will always work in favour of the company.

chrisseaton 6y ago
> And for that it's usuful to have a paid witness on your side But I'm not sure the union is going to be on my side. I know that's their pitch, but lots of people claim they want to act on my behalf - I'd be a fool to trust most of them!
- HarryHirsch 6y ago
  But I'm not sure the union is going to be on my side. If you aren't, check the agreements the union has with you and your employer. These are contracts with enforceable terms and are upheld.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > These are contracts with enforceable terms and are upheld. Stop and think this through for just a second. Try this thought experiment: If I want dogs in the office and my colleague wants dogs banned, you’re telling me you think the union will simultaneously negotiate for both our positions with our employer? Does not compute. It is not possible for them to be on everyone's side.
- creaturemachine 6y ago
  The union will always be on your side, it's their reason for existing and what you're paying them for. They will support the most indefensible position you can throw at them because it's their job.
  - chrisseaton 6y ago
    > The union will always be on your side This just isn't true. If I'm a junior worker in a union with a pay-by-seniority agreement because the majority of workers are senior, then they aren't on my side are they? They're on the side of the majority senior workers. They're on the side against me and my aspirations to get paid more.
    - chc 6y ago
      In that situation, you have a clear way of getting paid more: Keep working, same as everyone else did. You're not getting special treatment, but it's not like they're working against you either.
      - chrisseaton 6y ago
        Or I could vote against unionisation in the first place.
  - leesalminen 6y ago
    I’d recommend talking with employees of my local unionized Kroger, especially younger employees. The union is not always on their side. Benefits are heavily skewed to older employees by virtue of having more working-age years.

chrisseaton 6y ago

> And for that it's usuful to have a paid witness on your side But I'm not sure the union is going to be on my side. I know that's their pitch, but lots of people claim they want to act on my behalf - I'd be a fool to trust most of them!

HarryHirsch 6y ago
But I'm not sure the union is going to be on my side. If you aren't, check the agreements the union has with you and your employer. These are contracts with enforceable terms and are upheld.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > These are contracts with enforceable terms and are upheld. Stop and think this through for just a second. Try this thought experiment: If I want dogs in the office and my colleague wants dogs banned, you’re telling me you think the union will simultaneously negotiate for both our positions with our employer? Does not compute. It is not possible for them to be on everyone's side.
creaturemachine 6y ago
The union will always be on your side, it's their reason for existing and what you're paying them for. They will support the most indefensible position you can throw at them because it's their job.
- chrisseaton 6y ago
  > The union will always be on your side This just isn't true. If I'm a junior worker in a union with a pay-by-seniority agreement because the majority of workers are senior, then they aren't on my side are they? They're on the side of the majority senior workers. They're on the side against me and my aspirations to get paid more.
  - chc 6y ago
    In that situation, you have a clear way of getting paid more: Keep working, same as everyone else did. You're not getting special treatment, but it's not like they're working against you either.
    - chrisseaton 6y ago
      Or I could vote against unionisation in the first place.
- leesalminen 6y ago
  I’d recommend talking with employees of my local unionized Kroger, especially younger employees. The union is not always on their side. Benefits are heavily skewed to older employees by virtue of having more working-age years.