7 ms·

Gamestop went from 90 to 140 overnight in late/early trading - when retail on reddit are locked out. This isn't a reddit, or even retail, pump and dump.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
Similar thing happened the first time as well.
- iso1631 6y ago
  For every $50k some YOLO gambler on wsb makes from gambling their beer money, some hedge fund is making $500m (and another is losing $500m).
toomuchtodo 6y ago
https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ljwo3v/serious_researchers_needed_now_i_think_i_know/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ljwo3v/serious_researc... https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/lr33yp/etfs_containing_gme_average_daily_short_volume/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/lr33yp/etfs_containing... https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ls830a/found_the_reason_for_the_dip_they_are_shorting/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ls830a/found_the_reaso...
- BasedInfra 6y ago
  You think big finance is shorting ETFs with a combined value in the trillions to put downward pressure on GME stock price?
  - toomuchtodo 6y ago
    ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Something's up, that's all I know (along with level 2 data). $16.8 billion dollars lost so far and counting. That's real money. https://i.imgur.com/Rz1kUp7.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/Rz1kUp7.mp4 EDIT: https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1364957363724288000 https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1364957363724288000 "Gamestop Short Sellers Estimated To Have Lost $818 Million On Their Bearish Bets on Wednesday - Ortex"
    - gruez 6y ago
      Funny to see how upvoted that story is considering a few weeks ago the whole subreddit thought CNBC was "fake news" and in bed with wall st.
      - cat199 6y ago
        not necessarily - typical failed spin cycle usually tries spin+fud at level 10, when that fails, retrench to level 9, acknowledging some points with their own new spin and fake surprise at 'learning something new', lather, rinse, repeat. Same thing when you call out a compulsive liar in real life. I have 0% doubt that many of the comments in these threads are calling exactly this out. update: literally 1st pair of comments i read in WSB on this one is: "Lol Cramer is such a great actor. “What?! Seriously?!” What a douche" "Is he okay? He was looking off camera so frequently I thought maybe they are holding his wife hostage there or something. Cramer, buddy, blink twice if we should call the cops."
      - lotsofpulp 6y ago
        That whole subreddit is supposed to a joke, or at least it was.
    - iso1631 6y ago
      you don't believe "Cable News Boomer Crybabys" do you? /s
    - fractionalhare 6y ago
      That is false. $16.8B is greater than Melvin's AUM at the start of the year. The person in that video doesn't substantiate their claim either. As a more general aside: take everything said on Cramer's show with a grain of salt. He is a deeply unserious character in the financial space. His angle is to be provocative, not accurate.
      - toomuchtodo 6y ago
        Do you have a citation you can offer up with more solid loss numbers? It looks like Melvin alone has lost at least $4.5 billion dollars on the GME short trade, and Citadel/Point72 provided ~$2.75 billion in capital to Melvin. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-melvin/melvin-capital-ends-month-with-over-8-billion-in-assets-after-investors-added-cash-source-idUSKBN2A00KW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-melvin/mel...
mikestew 6y ago
when retail on reddit are locked out "Retail on reddit" doesn't use a broker that allows after-hours trading? Or am I reading this phrase incorrectly?
- datalus 6y ago
  Robinhood only allows you to trade for an hour into after hours. WeBull, another retail platform, and I believe thinkorswim (TDA's offering) allows you to trade the full after hours length of time which ends at 8pm EST. edit: These are the only 3 platforms I have experience with, there are certainly others.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    Confirming that TD/TOS let's me make trades as GTC_EXT. Good till Closed, Extended Hours (it's till 2000h New York time) and early morning. For gamblers this is like: "hard ways, always working"
- iso1631 6y ago
  "reddit" being the chatty ones on wsb. Certainly don't claim it from what they write Of course it could be that nobody posting on reddit has a single share, and all the screenshots are just virtual profiles on various accounts, but if we're assuming what people on reddit are saying is broadly true then that's the case
- bo1024 6y ago
  Many of them probably do, but I strongly doubt they're doing a ton of trading after hours. For one thing, the people all excited about gamestop have been talking about it at $40-50 / share, so why would they suddenly all jump in at $150? For another, I read (but don't know how to verify) that after-hours volume was much higher. Doesn't seem likely that retail was much of a factor.
  - jobigoud 6y ago
    > why would they suddenly all jump in at $150? Don't try to apply logic to this, it's meme trading, it's not meant to be rational.
wdn 6y ago
Retail cannot move price. We are talking about 100 of million shares traded. Only in this age that a stock going up is bad.
- iso1631 6y ago
  From what I can tell so far 97 million shares have traded hands today - an average of $140, that's $14 billion spent on shares today alone. Even if 10 million redditors were buying, that would be $1400 each. That's ridiculous
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - postalrat 6y ago
    Could instead be 1400 reddit millionaires.
    - CyberDildonics 6y ago
      You think 1400 wallstreetbets readers put in 10 million each over night?
  - emteycz 6y ago
    Many people are daytrading it
  - wdn 6y ago
    It will be day trading firm. There are much better stock or futures to day trade as GME properly still requires 100% margin.
throwaway0956 6y ago
Vlad Tenev, CEO of Robinhood, had an interview with the owner of Barstool Sports a few days ago. He said that after investigating buy/sell orders data from various Market Makers, they determined that the majority of retail were selling and it was the institutions that were doing most of the buying that shot the price over the moon. I do think Reddit got the ball rolling, but I think the institutions got on board as soon as they saw an opportunity for quick profits and it went from there.
bilekas 6y ago
I'm inclined to agree.. They drop the CFO, and then this, without much sentiment on reddit like before. Super strange
aphextron 6y ago
>Gamestop went from 90 to 140 overnight in late/early trading - when retail on reddit are locked out. Retail traders were not "locked out". Practically every retail brokerage offers extended hours trading, many from 4AM to 9PM.
- outworlder 6y ago
  Extended hours vary a lot between brokers. Not all offer premarket. Aftermarket tends to be 1h after close for the vast majority.
  - selectodude 6y ago
    TD Ameritrade offers 7am to 8pm. You just need a real brokerage.
    - edoceo 6y ago
      To add: those are New Youk timezone
viklove 6y ago
Any reputable broker will let you trade after hours (ETrade, TD, etc.) If you're still using Robinhood after what they pulled last month... that's on you.
dragontamer 6y ago
> Gamestop went from 90 to 140 overnight in late/early trading - when retail on reddit are locked out. Retail can buy/sell call options overnight. The Bloomberg opinion article states: > Yesterday someone bought thousands of GameStop call options with an $800 strike price expiring tomorrow. They cost 87 cents per share. If the stock closes above $800 tomorrow those options will pay out; also though all notions of money and value and human society will be rendered meaningless, so I don’t know what you’ll do with your payout. That hypothetical person YOLOing $100,000+ could very easily be a retail investor throwing away money for the lulz. Maybe someone who won big a few months ago and feels fine throwing their excess money away.
- cjbenedikt 6y ago
  Ever considered that someone just closed out short call positions ?
  - dragontamer 6y ago
    Open interest declines if someone closes positions. Open interest increases if someone opens a position. ---------- Open Interest is well over 10,000 on $800 GME expiring tomorrow. So __somebody__ bought-to-open call options at $800. (I presume the sell-to-open side of that call option is just the Market Maker who happened to close that deal, taking the free money). This is well over $1-million USD being YOLO'd onto an outrageous bet (that GME is going to be over $800 tomorrow at 4:30pm). https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/gme/option-chain/call-put-options/gme---210226c00800000 https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/gme/option-cha... --------- In any case, my point is that retail is absolutely allowed to trade options overnight. Just because stock market is closed doesn't mean that the options-market is closed. The options-market is 24/7.
    - TameAntelope 6y ago
      You should see the bets people make on the Superbowl, if you think this YOLO is crazy.
- ConcernedCoder 6y ago
fractionalhare 6y ago
It's both retail and institutional. Retail traders can't swing that kind of volume in the underlying shares, no. But retail call buying as a proportion of total equity options volume is up massively in the past two years. The trading leverage inherent to retail call options herding together combined with the requirement for market makers to hedge the options they sell induces these huge movements. From there, momentum traders exacerbate the spark that's already lit.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago

Similar thing happened the first time as well.

iso1631 6y ago
For every $50k some YOLO gambler on wsb makes from gambling their beer money, some hedge fund is making $500m (and another is losing $500m).

toomuchtodo 6y ago

https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ljwo3v/serious_researchers_needed_now_i_think_i_know/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ljwo3v/serious_researc... https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/lr33yp/etfs_containing_gme_average_daily_short_volume/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/lr33yp/etfs_containing... https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ls830a/found_the_reason_for_the_dip_they_are_shorting/ https://old.reddit.com/r/GME/comments/ls830a/found_the_reaso...

BasedInfra 6y ago
You think big finance is shorting ETFs with a combined value in the trillions to put downward pressure on GME stock price?
- toomuchtodo 6y ago
  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Something's up, that's all I know (along with level 2 data). $16.8 billion dollars lost so far and counting. That's real money. https://i.imgur.com/Rz1kUp7.mp4 https://i.imgur.com/Rz1kUp7.mp4 EDIT: https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1364957363724288000 https://twitter.com/deitaone/status/1364957363724288000 "Gamestop Short Sellers Estimated To Have Lost $818 Million On Their Bearish Bets on Wednesday - Ortex"
  - gruez 6y ago
    Funny to see how upvoted that story is considering a few weeks ago the whole subreddit thought CNBC was "fake news" and in bed with wall st.
    - cat199 6y ago
      not necessarily - typical failed spin cycle usually tries spin+fud at level 10, when that fails, retrench to level 9, acknowledging some points with their own new spin and fake surprise at 'learning something new', lather, rinse, repeat. Same thing when you call out a compulsive liar in real life. I have 0% doubt that many of the comments in these threads are calling exactly this out. update: literally 1st pair of comments i read in WSB on this one is: "Lol Cramer is such a great actor. “What?! Seriously?!” What a douche" "Is he okay? He was looking off camera so frequently I thought maybe they are holding his wife hostage there or something. Cramer, buddy, blink twice if we should call the cops."
    - lotsofpulp 6y ago
      That whole subreddit is supposed to a joke, or at least it was.
  - iso1631 6y ago
    you don't believe "Cable News Boomer Crybabys" do you? /s
  - fractionalhare 6y ago
    That is false. $16.8B is greater than Melvin's AUM at the start of the year. The person in that video doesn't substantiate their claim either. As a more general aside: take everything said on Cramer's show with a grain of salt. He is a deeply unserious character in the financial space. His angle is to be provocative, not accurate.
    - toomuchtodo 6y ago
      Do you have a citation you can offer up with more solid loss numbers? It looks like Melvin alone has lost at least $4.5 billion dollars on the GME short trade, and Citadel/Point72 provided ~$2.75 billion in capital to Melvin. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-melvin/melvin-capital-ends-month-with-over-8-billion-in-assets-after-investors-added-cash-source-idUSKBN2A00KW https://www.reuters.com/article/us-retail-trading-melvin/mel...

mikestew 6y ago

when retail on reddit are locked out "Retail on reddit" doesn't use a broker that allows after-hours trading? Or am I reading this phrase incorrectly?

datalus 6y ago
Robinhood only allows you to trade for an hour into after hours. WeBull, another retail platform, and I believe thinkorswim (TDA's offering) allows you to trade the full after hours length of time which ends at 8pm EST. edit: These are the only 3 platforms I have experience with, there are certainly others.
- edoceo 6y ago
  Confirming that TD/TOS let's me make trades as GTC_EXT. Good till Closed, Extended Hours (it's till 2000h New York time) and early morning. For gamblers this is like: "hard ways, always working"
iso1631 6y ago
"reddit" being the chatty ones on wsb. Certainly don't claim it from what they write Of course it could be that nobody posting on reddit has a single share, and all the screenshots are just virtual profiles on various accounts, but if we're assuming what people on reddit are saying is broadly true then that's the case
bo1024 6y ago
Many of them probably do, but I strongly doubt they're doing a ton of trading after hours. For one thing, the people all excited about gamestop have been talking about it at $40-50 / share, so why would they suddenly all jump in at $150? For another, I read (but don't know how to verify) that after-hours volume was much higher. Doesn't seem likely that retail was much of a factor.
- jobigoud 6y ago
  > why would they suddenly all jump in at $150? Don't try to apply logic to this, it's meme trading, it's not meant to be rational.

wdn 6y ago

Retail cannot move price. We are talking about 100 of million shares traded. Only in this age that a stock going up is bad.

iso1631 6y ago
From what I can tell so far 97 million shares have traded hands today - an average of $140, that's $14 billion spent on shares today alone. Even if 10 million redditors were buying, that would be $1400 each. That's ridiculous
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- postalrat 6y ago
  Could instead be 1400 reddit millionaires.
  - CyberDildonics 6y ago
    You think 1400 wallstreetbets readers put in 10 million each over night?
- emteycz 6y ago
  Many people are daytrading it
- wdn 6y ago
  It will be day trading firm. There are much better stock or futures to day trade as GME properly still requires 100% margin.

throwaway0956 6y ago

Vlad Tenev, CEO of Robinhood, had an interview with the owner of Barstool Sports a few days ago. He said that after investigating buy/sell orders data from various Market Makers, they determined that the majority of retail were selling and it was the institutions that were doing most of the buying that shot the price over the moon. I do think Reddit got the ball rolling, but I think the institutions got on board as soon as they saw an opportunity for quick profits and it went from there.

bilekas 6y ago

I'm inclined to agree.. They drop the CFO, and then this, without much sentiment on reddit like before. Super strange

aphextron 6y ago

>Gamestop went from 90 to 140 overnight in late/early trading - when retail on reddit are locked out. Retail traders were not "locked out". Practically every retail brokerage offers extended hours trading, many from 4AM to 9PM.

outworlder 6y ago
Extended hours vary a lot between brokers. Not all offer premarket. Aftermarket tends to be 1h after close for the vast majority.
- selectodude 6y ago
  TD Ameritrade offers 7am to 8pm. You just need a real brokerage.
  - edoceo 6y ago
    To add: those are New Youk timezone

viklove 6y ago

Any reputable broker will let you trade after hours (ETrade, TD, etc.) If you're still using Robinhood after what they pulled last month... that's on you.

dragontamer 6y ago

> Gamestop went from 90 to 140 overnight in late/early trading - when retail on reddit are locked out. Retail can buy/sell call options overnight. The Bloomberg opinion article states: > Yesterday someone bought thousands of GameStop call options with an $800 strike price expiring tomorrow. They cost 87 cents per share. If the stock closes above $800 tomorrow those options will pay out; also though all notions of money and value and human society will be rendered meaningless, so I don’t know what you’ll do with your payout. That hypothetical person YOLOing $100,000+ could very easily be a retail investor throwing away money for the lulz. Maybe someone who won big a few months ago and feels fine throwing their excess money away.

cjbenedikt 6y ago
Ever considered that someone just closed out short call positions ?
- dragontamer 6y ago
  Open interest declines if someone closes positions. Open interest increases if someone opens a position. ---------- Open Interest is well over 10,000 on $800 GME expiring tomorrow. So __somebody__ bought-to-open call options at $800. (I presume the sell-to-open side of that call option is just the Market Maker who happened to close that deal, taking the free money). This is well over $1-million USD being YOLO'd onto an outrageous bet (that GME is going to be over $800 tomorrow at 4:30pm). https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/gme/option-chain/call-put-options/gme---210226c00800000 https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/gme/option-cha... --------- In any case, my point is that retail is absolutely allowed to trade options overnight. Just because stock market is closed doesn't mean that the options-market is closed. The options-market is 24/7.
  - TameAntelope 6y ago
    You should see the bets people make on the Superbowl, if you think this YOLO is crazy.
ConcernedCoder 6y ago

fractionalhare 6y ago

It's both retail and institutional. Retail traders can't swing that kind of volume in the underlying shares, no. But retail call buying as a proportion of total equity options volume is up massively in the past two years. The trading leverage inherent to retail call options herding together combined with the requirement for market makers to hedge the options they sell induces these huge movements. From there, momentum traders exacerbate the spark that's already lit.