6 ms·

So, NYT dude is not very much impressed, but at the end of the article he says he is seeing dramatic improvements in latency of his light bulbs and garage door,

So, NYT dude is not very much impressed, but at the end of the article he says he is seeing dramatic improvements in latency of his light bulbs and garage door, which apparently took seconds with his old Wifi. That sounds odd.

cbozeman 6y ago
I've always felt that's why this kind of reporting is pointless. I don't care what some guy I don't know, who doesn't post his credentials, says about a technology that's very complex. I'd rather wait for Wendell Wilson to do a video and I'll watch it on Level1Techs channel on YouTube. This whole model seems pointless and strange to me. We no longer need "tech journalists" when you can have literal tech experts creating videos that cover all this stuff in far greater depth. I'd love to see the metrics on this article versus the best tech expert YouTubers.
- azinman2 6y ago
  Most people aren’t technical experts, so this has a much broader appeal using language and scenarios that’s more familiar to everyday people.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    That's not my point. My point is why should anyone listen to this guy. None of his qualifications are on display. Does he build out WiFi networks for a living? "He works for the New York Times" is not a qualification anyone should give a shit about after how they've conducted "journalism" since 2015. I want to hear from experts, not journalists. Maybe articles wherein journalists consult with a range of experts and then convey those experts' opinions to me, but I definitely don't care what a guy with a degree in journalism who happens to love tech has to say. I want to hear from people from work with these technologies from day to day. If you want to know about heart health, you ask a cardiologist, not a health journalist.
    - FactCore 6y ago
      I think the issue your ideal world of communication runs into, is that experts can't dedicate all of their time to public outreach. That's where journalists come in. If you want to know why your chest hurts a bit on the regular, you talk to your doctor. If you want to learn a few interesting facts about a heart condition, you read an article written by a journalist.
- roywiggins 6y ago
  Most people have no idea how to evaluate YouTuber credentials, and they subscribe to outlets like the NYT to do the filtering for them. You're not the intended audience for these pieces so it's not weird that you don't find them very useful. Most people just aren't interested in the depth of detail that you are. Imagine if they replaced all the articles on topics you are just peripherally interested in with wonky deep-dives. You'd probably give up after the first few because you aren't equally interested in everything, and sometimes you just want a breezy high-level overview of what's happening. NYT is writing to audience that just wants to know whether they need a fancy new router or whether they should stick with their current one for a while longer. That's it.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    I'm not debating the audience, I'm debating the qualifications of the person writing. I know Wendell is the real deal because Dr. Ian Cutress wouldn't have had him on AnandTech livestreams if he wasn't. I also know Wendell's the real deal by watching Level1Techs YouTube videos. I also know he's the real deal because he literally builds out networks for companies for a living (Wendell Wilson Consulting in Kentucky). I don't know shit about this NYT writer. His credentials aren't listed on the NYT website. Does he have a degree in business information systems? Electrical engineering? Computer science? I don't know. That's the whole point. I don't want to hear heart health advice from a "health journalist", I want to hear what an actual cardiologist has to say. Same with a "tech journalist". No thanks, I'll trust the opinion of someone who builds networks for a living when it comes to my network equipment. In the past, finding people with these qualifications was difficult, and then you had to find time to liaise with them. Now you can find some of the best people in the world and gain their insight just from reading or watching YouTube.
    - Laforet 6y ago
      Back in the old days there were media outlets for the general public and the specialists. One just has to be pointed to the right direction. I don't think today's media landscape is that different - the professional youtubers are just today's trade journals. Though there is definitely a much larger barrier of entry when it comes to video because product is much more involved than just writing an article. I've noticed over the past few years was that pros from the few non-tech hobbies have been trying to get into video and many are clearly struggling. I often wonder how much talent is out there that we don't get to see.
- oblio 6y ago
  > I'd rather wait for Wendell Wilson to do a video and I'll watch it on Level1Techs channel on YouTube. I watch a ton of tech Youtubers and I have absolutely no idea who those folks are. The world is a lot bigger than you imagine.
  - teddyh 6y ago
    Wendell did a video with Linus Tech Tips a few years back, and they’ve collaborated a few times before and since, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw
    - mobilemidget 6y ago
      network chuck too, was my first video of him I watched, and probably most interesting too, but that's probably personal thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmmVEoftEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmmVEoftEM
      - teddyh 6y ago
        I can’t find any appearence or mention of Wendell in that video, nor could I find any other video by the same person featuring Wendell.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    I know exactly how big the world is, thanks. The guy personally built a new workstation for Linus Torvalds and sent it to him. Maybe the world's a bigger than you imagine.
    - oblio 6y ago
      I'm not sure you get my point. Your internet celebrities are not as famous as you imagine and thus not references the layperson would know of let alone trust. A major newspaper, despite its defects, is much more of a known quantity.
wccrawford 6y ago
Anecdata, but I recently went to wifi6 and even though I didn't notice until now, I'm pretty sure our wifi lights respond quicker than they used to. It's maybe only a second or 2, but I remember being annoyed at how long they took sometimes before, and I haven't felt that way since I got this new router. However, the old router was a Google mesh and 1 of them definitely died slowly, so that could have been causing the delay for a while before it fully died on us.
- trashcan 6y ago
  If your lights take seconds to turn on, invest in better technology. Lutron Caseta switches take milliseconds to turn lights on.
sp332 6y ago
For a network that's already working fine, it's only going to make marginal improvements. Who's going to spend $230 on a new router for slightly faster lightbulbs?
- beart 6y ago
  This comment made me laugh. My light bulbs turn on at the speed of electricity right now.
  - hansel_der 6y ago
    thx for pointing that out, you two made my day!
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  The fact that lightbulbs took seconds to turn on suggests something was very wrong and he's getting much more than marginal improvements.
  - marderfarker2 6y ago
    Most likely due to slow ARP resolution. My custom firmware power switch would take a long time to respond until I turned on gratuitous ARP broadcast.
yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago
I'd be curious to know whether that's a wifi problem or a "your IoT devices are run by very small computers running very unoptimized software" problem.
azinman2 6y ago
It does. I have a hard time believing Wi-Fi itself could cause such a large swing in latency, but perhaps all those back and forth round trips do add up? Is WiFi 6 known for major latency improvements? Or is this just related to less congestion? It would be interesting to compare it to Ethernet usage of these devices.
- jolan 6y ago
  Yes, WiFi 6 has a lot of major improvements to reduce latency. Intel has a good write up here: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/wifi-6.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/wif...
hfjtktkf 6y ago
> seconds to turn on a light bulb What a time to be alive! We truly are living in the future!
- cardiffspaceman 6y ago
  We used to have to take several seconds to walk over and back to a light bulb to turn it on. Now it's just as fast but we don't have to even stand up.
jayd16 6y ago
Sounds like a placebo or he had terrible wifi before. Alexa and the old bulbs wouldn't be running Wifi6 so its just a newer router running in backwards compatible modes. The only Wifi6 device the author owns is probably an iPhone.

cbozeman 6y ago

I've always felt that's why this kind of reporting is pointless. I don't care what some guy I don't know, who doesn't post his credentials, says about a technology that's very complex. I'd rather wait for Wendell Wilson to do a video and I'll watch it on Level1Techs channel on YouTube. This whole model seems pointless and strange to me. We no longer need "tech journalists" when you can have literal tech experts creating videos that cover all this stuff in far greater depth. I'd love to see the metrics on this article versus the best tech expert YouTubers.

azinman2 6y ago
Most people aren’t technical experts, so this has a much broader appeal using language and scenarios that’s more familiar to everyday people.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  That's not my point. My point is why should anyone listen to this guy. None of his qualifications are on display. Does he build out WiFi networks for a living? "He works for the New York Times" is not a qualification anyone should give a shit about after how they've conducted "journalism" since 2015. I want to hear from experts, not journalists. Maybe articles wherein journalists consult with a range of experts and then convey those experts' opinions to me, but I definitely don't care what a guy with a degree in journalism who happens to love tech has to say. I want to hear from people from work with these technologies from day to day. If you want to know about heart health, you ask a cardiologist, not a health journalist.
  - FactCore 6y ago
    I think the issue your ideal world of communication runs into, is that experts can't dedicate all of their time to public outreach. That's where journalists come in. If you want to know why your chest hurts a bit on the regular, you talk to your doctor. If you want to learn a few interesting facts about a heart condition, you read an article written by a journalist.
roywiggins 6y ago
Most people have no idea how to evaluate YouTuber credentials, and they subscribe to outlets like the NYT to do the filtering for them. You're not the intended audience for these pieces so it's not weird that you don't find them very useful. Most people just aren't interested in the depth of detail that you are. Imagine if they replaced all the articles on topics you are just peripherally interested in with wonky deep-dives. You'd probably give up after the first few because you aren't equally interested in everything, and sometimes you just want a breezy high-level overview of what's happening. NYT is writing to audience that just wants to know whether they need a fancy new router or whether they should stick with their current one for a while longer. That's it.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I'm not debating the audience, I'm debating the qualifications of the person writing. I know Wendell is the real deal because Dr. Ian Cutress wouldn't have had him on AnandTech livestreams if he wasn't. I also know Wendell's the real deal by watching Level1Techs YouTube videos. I also know he's the real deal because he literally builds out networks for companies for a living (Wendell Wilson Consulting in Kentucky). I don't know shit about this NYT writer. His credentials aren't listed on the NYT website. Does he have a degree in business information systems? Electrical engineering? Computer science? I don't know. That's the whole point. I don't want to hear heart health advice from a "health journalist", I want to hear what an actual cardiologist has to say. Same with a "tech journalist". No thanks, I'll trust the opinion of someone who builds networks for a living when it comes to my network equipment. In the past, finding people with these qualifications was difficult, and then you had to find time to liaise with them. Now you can find some of the best people in the world and gain their insight just from reading or watching YouTube.
  - Laforet 6y ago
    Back in the old days there were media outlets for the general public and the specialists. One just has to be pointed to the right direction. I don't think today's media landscape is that different - the professional youtubers are just today's trade journals. Though there is definitely a much larger barrier of entry when it comes to video because product is much more involved than just writing an article. I've noticed over the past few years was that pros from the few non-tech hobbies have been trying to get into video and many are clearly struggling. I often wonder how much talent is out there that we don't get to see.
oblio 6y ago
> I'd rather wait for Wendell Wilson to do a video and I'll watch it on Level1Techs channel on YouTube. I watch a ton of tech Youtubers and I have absolutely no idea who those folks are. The world is a lot bigger than you imagine.
- teddyh 6y ago
  Wendell did a video with Linus Tech Tips a few years back, and they’ve collaborated a few times before and since, too: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SsgI1mkx6iw
  - mobilemidget 6y ago
    network chuck too, was my first video of him I watched, and probably most interesting too, but that's probably personal thing. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmmVEoftEM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8cmmVEoftEM
    - teddyh 6y ago
      I can’t find any appearence or mention of Wendell in that video, nor could I find any other video by the same person featuring Wendell.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  I know exactly how big the world is, thanks. The guy personally built a new workstation for Linus Torvalds and sent it to him. Maybe the world's a bigger than you imagine.
  - oblio 6y ago
    I'm not sure you get my point. Your internet celebrities are not as famous as you imagine and thus not references the layperson would know of let alone trust. A major newspaper, despite its defects, is much more of a known quantity.

wccrawford 6y ago

Anecdata, but I recently went to wifi6 and even though I didn't notice until now, I'm pretty sure our wifi lights respond quicker than they used to. It's maybe only a second or 2, but I remember being annoyed at how long they took sometimes before, and I haven't felt that way since I got this new router. However, the old router was a Google mesh and 1 of them definitely died slowly, so that could have been causing the delay for a while before it fully died on us.

trashcan 6y ago
If your lights take seconds to turn on, invest in better technology. Lutron Caseta switches take milliseconds to turn lights on.

sp332 6y ago

For a network that's already working fine, it's only going to make marginal improvements. Who's going to spend $230 on a new router for slightly faster lightbulbs?

beart 6y ago
This comment made me laugh. My light bulbs turn on at the speed of electricity right now.
- hansel_der 6y ago
  thx for pointing that out, you two made my day!
Nextgrid 6y ago
The fact that lightbulbs took seconds to turn on suggests something was very wrong and he's getting much more than marginal improvements.
- marderfarker2 6y ago
  Most likely due to slow ARP resolution. My custom firmware power switch would take a long time to respond until I turned on gratuitous ARP broadcast.

yjftsjthsd-h 6y ago

I'd be curious to know whether that's a wifi problem or a "your IoT devices are run by very small computers running very unoptimized software" problem.

azinman2 6y ago

It does. I have a hard time believing Wi-Fi itself could cause such a large swing in latency, but perhaps all those back and forth round trips do add up? Is WiFi 6 known for major latency improvements? Or is this just related to less congestion? It would be interesting to compare it to Ethernet usage of these devices.

jolan 6y ago
Yes, WiFi 6 has a lot of major improvements to reduce latency. Intel has a good write up here: https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/wifi-6.html https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/resources/wif...

hfjtktkf 6y ago

> seconds to turn on a light bulb What a time to be alive! We truly are living in the future!

cardiffspaceman 6y ago
We used to have to take several seconds to walk over and back to a light bulb to turn it on. Now it's just as fast but we don't have to even stand up.

jayd16 6y ago

Sounds like a placebo or he had terrible wifi before. Alexa and the old bulbs wouldn't be running Wifi6 so its just a newer router running in backwards compatible modes. The only Wifi6 device the author owns is probably an iPhone.