4 ms·

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

ahelwer 6y ago
This is a pretty interesting question, and I think prods at other questions about the actual form that tech worker unions will take - especially in big companies like Google. Will they be actual organized units capable of orchestrating coordinated action to withhold labor for improvement of material conditions? Or will they just be a sort of caucus that issue statements about political issues at work and occasionally organize an afternoon walkout? If the latter, this isn't the sort of thing that will bother management very much. Certainly not at the existential level of "some of the stock dividend/buyback money will have to be redirected from shareholders to workers, my GOD"
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  I think employee walkouts will bother management quite a bit. And compensation/benefit issues are political ones.
- grumple 6y ago
  We might not notice the tech workers walking out at google. It's not like they provide support. At AWS - we'd definitely notice, because their support is really good. > Will they be actual organized units capable of orchestrating coordinated action to withhold labor for improvement of material conditions? Developers have the money to withstand very long strikes if needed. I think there's a lot of power in that.
skeeter2020 6y ago
That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?
- willcipriano 6y ago
  > That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you? Sending out propaganda is a new piece of information. When someone is trying really hard to get you to believe something, or act in a particular way, that in and of itself is informative. You don't play Magic The Gathering, do you?
  - darkwizard42 6y ago
    Forget Magic (though I appreciate the reference), this is like basic strategic thinking. Especially when there is a clear motive for the opponent (Amazon) to behave the way they are with little but trust they will do the right thing for you (worker).
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
- praestigiare 6y ago
  It makes sense if you consider your company sending you propaganda to be additional information relevant to whether you can trust them, and so you review your decision, which is a perfectly rational response.
- EliRivers 6y ago
  I expect he's human, rather than Homo Economicus. Many humans, when treated with contempt and addressed as if he's a gullible moron by someone who patronisingly tries to lead him into a decision explicitly to that patronising jerk's advantage, often dislikes it to the point of generating what we might call the "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" response. People who play poker yet somehow aren't familiar with humans will struggle playing against them.

How does this not backfire? At Google I'm just sitting on the sidelines with the whole union thing, but if they sent me something like this I'd join and support the union immediately.

ahelwer 6y ago

This is a pretty interesting question, and I think prods at other questions about the actual form that tech worker unions will take - especially in big companies like Google. Will they be actual organized units capable of orchestrating coordinated action to withhold labor for improvement of material conditions? Or will they just be a sort of caucus that issue statements about political issues at work and occasionally organize an afternoon walkout? If the latter, this isn't the sort of thing that will bother management very much. Certainly not at the existential level of "some of the stock dividend/buyback money will have to be redirected from shareholders to workers, my GOD"

whimsicalism 6y ago
I think employee walkouts will bother management quite a bit. And compensation/benefit issues are political ones.
grumple 6y ago
We might not notice the tech workers walking out at google. It's not like they provide support. At AWS - we'd definitely notice, because their support is really good. > Will they be actual organized units capable of orchestrating coordinated action to withhold labor for improvement of material conditions? Developers have the money to withstand very long strikes if needed. I think there's a lot of power in that.

skeeter2020 6y ago

That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you?

willcipriano 6y ago
> That doesn't make any sense. You're saying you have made some sort of value judgement, presumably based on logic and information, but if someone sends you a piece of propaganda you'd totally change your position? You don' t play poker, do you? Sending out propaganda is a new piece of information. When someone is trying really hard to get you to believe something, or act in a particular way, that in and of itself is informative. You don't play Magic The Gathering, do you?
- darkwizard42 6y ago
  Forget Magic (though I appreciate the reference), this is like basic strategic thinking. Especially when there is a clear motive for the opponent (Amazon) to behave the way they are with little but trust they will do the right thing for you (worker).
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
praestigiare 6y ago
It makes sense if you consider your company sending you propaganda to be additional information relevant to whether you can trust them, and so you review your decision, which is a perfectly rational response.
EliRivers 6y ago
I expect he's human, rather than Homo Economicus. Many humans, when treated with contempt and addressed as if he's a gullible moron by someone who patronisingly tries to lead him into a decision explicitly to that patronising jerk's advantage, often dislikes it to the point of generating what we might call the "fuck you, I won't do what you tell me" response. People who play poker yet somehow aren't familiar with humans will struggle playing against them.