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I am going to make this comment and it might be unpopular but it is definitely not meant to be a slag against iOS. I am noticing that a lot of the new iOS feat

by 51Cards 15y ago

I am going to make this comment and it might be unpopular but it is definitely not meant to be a slag against iOS. I am noticing that a lot of the new iOS features are "missing features" from other mobile OSs... and since I'm really only familiar with iOS and Android so I can only compare those but a short list: - centralized notification tray - OTA activation - OTA synching - OTA updates - optimized updates - reminders that sync with your calendar - hardware camera buttons - data sych to the cloud (though iCloud is much more complete than Google account sync) - iMessage is being compared to BBM This is a great for iOS and quite overdue. But at the risk of offending the Apple fans, am I the only one who feels that this update to iOS contains a lot of things that are just to maintain feature parity with other systems vs. outright innovation? Just seemed that much of the features list for iOS this year had a different feel from years past. Maybe it's just me.

bryanh 15y ago
You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.
- ljlolel 15y ago
  I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features. iOS 5 isn't innovating. iOS 5 is copying. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone 6 has a hardware back button like android. The iPad still innovates, and hopefully Apple has a cool new product around the corner.
  - jamesaguilar 15y ago
    I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much against Apple adding another hardware button of any kind except maybe a camera button. I agree that a lot of Apple's advantage came from innovating. But a lot of the advantage also comes from taking features that other devices have done and doing them better. For example, Android does not show collated notifications on the home screen by default, and you can't interact with notifications without unlocking the screen and pulling down. iPhone's proposed implementation looks a lot better than what Android has. This happened with copy and paste too, and Android still has not caught up (no universal method for copy-and-paste). I don't care if Apple copies or innovates. What I care about is that iPhone is still (and after this next release, will to an even greater extent be) the best phone money can buy. How it got that way is immaterial to most of their potential customers.
    - joebadmo 15y ago
      You're almost certainly right that iOS devices probably aren't going to get a hardware back button, but I disagree with you on the usefulness of hw back buttons. Generally, if I come to an activity from another app, it's to do one specific thing and then I want to go back to the original app. There are certainly cases when I want to stay in the app I got sent to and then hit back and find myself in the original app. The path then to the app I want is the same as always: home button, app shortcut. Conversely, on iOS, what happens when I get sent to a different app and then want to go back to the original app? Home button, app shortcut. In my experience, the android way addresses the more common scenario. Also, there are builds of android (HTC's Sense UI, I believe) that do have notifications on the lock screen. Not only that, but the lock screen is configurable, so you can add shortcuts that, when you drag them to the unlock field, take you directly to the app. This is a neat feature that I hope eventually makes it into android proper. EDIT: Hm, this is factual and fairly uncontroversial. I suppose getting downvoted sometimes is just an inevitable consequence of participating in any dicussion involving iOS and Android? Oh well.
mikeleeorg 15y ago
The same thought crossed my mind. Not that I mind, as an iPhone user. Coincidentally, a friend was showing me his jailbroken iPhone this weekend with an Android-like notification bar and other Android-like features (he's never owned an Android phone before; he just happens to like features like that). It was nearly enough to convince me to jailbreak my phone too. I don't feel like these are outright innovations either, but that's okay. I'll still take 'em.

by 51Cards 15y ago

bryanh 15y ago

You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.

ljlolel 15y ago
I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features. iOS 5 isn't innovating. iOS 5 is copying. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone 6 has a hardware back button like android. The iPad still innovates, and hopefully Apple has a cool new product around the corner.
- jamesaguilar 15y ago
  I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much against Apple adding another hardware button of any kind except maybe a camera button. I agree that a lot of Apple's advantage came from innovating. But a lot of the advantage also comes from taking features that other devices have done and doing them better. For example, Android does not show collated notifications on the home screen by default, and you can't interact with notifications without unlocking the screen and pulling down. iPhone's proposed implementation looks a lot better than what Android has. This happened with copy and paste too, and Android still has not caught up (no universal method for copy-and-paste). I don't care if Apple copies or innovates. What I care about is that iPhone is still (and after this next release, will to an even greater extent be) the best phone money can buy. How it got that way is immaterial to most of their potential customers.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    You're almost certainly right that iOS devices probably aren't going to get a hardware back button, but I disagree with you on the usefulness of hw back buttons. Generally, if I come to an activity from another app, it's to do one specific thing and then I want to go back to the original app. There are certainly cases when I want to stay in the app I got sent to and then hit back and find myself in the original app. The path then to the app I want is the same as always: home button, app shortcut. Conversely, on iOS, what happens when I get sent to a different app and then want to go back to the original app? Home button, app shortcut. In my experience, the android way addresses the more common scenario. Also, there are builds of android (HTC's Sense UI, I believe) that do have notifications on the lock screen. Not only that, but the lock screen is configurable, so you can add shortcuts that, when you drag them to the unlock field, take you directly to the app. This is a neat feature that I hope eventually makes it into android proper. EDIT: Hm, this is factual and fairly uncontroversial. I suppose getting downvoted sometimes is just an inevitable consequence of participating in any dicussion involving iOS and Android? Oh well.

mikeleeorg 15y ago

The same thought crossed my mind. Not that I mind, as an iPhone user. Coincidentally, a friend was showing me his jailbroken iPhone this weekend with an Android-like notification bar and other Android-like features (he's never owned an Android phone before; he just happens to like features like that). It was nearly enough to convince me to jailbreak my phone too. I don't feel like these are outright innovations either, but that's okay. I'll still take 'em.