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The RPI is pretty sad from a software freedoms point. The entire thing is backdoored with proprietary firmware and filled with DRM. Even the camera module uses

The RPI is pretty sad from a software freedoms point. The entire thing is backdoored with proprietary firmware and filled with DRM. Even the camera module uses DRM to communicate.

1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago
However it does not come "bundled" with an OS. It is more versatile than many development boards in the sense of running different OS "out of the box". Granted the boot process is not ideal, but the design does give users a degree of freedom of choice in OS that many other SBCs do not. Most dev boards (certainly ones pre-RPi) are targeted at a single OS "out of the box": Linux. How many run Plan9. I read this complaint about the RPi firmware so often on HN but I have never read how it actually is being used to stop RPi owners from doing what they want with their RPi. It is theoretically a problem but in practice what has actually happened. There has been an enormous amount of tinkering with RPis, people are using them for all sorts of things, and are able to build on the work of others. DRM is important but viewing copyrighted works is not the only use for a computer. There is no perfect computer but the RPi for its OS-versatilty is arguably better than many others who fail miserably on that point. There are certainly better dev boards from a spec standpoint, but if it cannot boot off external media and is only intended to run a single OS, I think it is missing some "freedoms" that the RPi provides.
- Renaud 6y ago
  I tend to agree with you that pragmatism wins the day where the Rpi is concerned. However, the lack of open hardware for the Rpi means that it is not possible to replicate one at all. You basically can't make a Rpi-compatible board to suit your own needs. It isn't the fault of the Rpi fundation, it's the sorry lack of openness in electronics hardware that is to blame. Chip manufacturers license lots of IP from each other and I doubt we'll ever see a truly open microprocessor/controller that would have all its features accessible without restriction. We can hope that one day a RISC V implementation could be open, but then the GPU, controllers, etc would also need to be unencumbered. Of course, it would be possible for chip manufacturers to allow this licensing -maybe to the detriment of the cost of the chip- but it would need to really be profitable for them to go through the 'hassle'. After all, the die doesn't need to be open, we only need open access to all the functionalities of the chip.
azalemeth 6y ago
That's quite interesting -- I didn't know that the camera module was DRM'd. Do you have a reference for that statement? And is the "core" DRM just related to Widevine?
- kingosticks 6y ago
  It's not, really. People get confused about this: https://mobile.twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/1088440503622909952 https://mobile.twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/1088440503622909... I've personally no problem with them protecting their investment this way.
cleverca22 6y ago
https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=576143 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=576143 > a China knockoff version of R-Pi camera board > It's happened to the company I work with, they were marketing a cheap copy of our consumer electronics device under our brand name and even our customer service phone #. the DRM in the camera, is to ensure only an authentic camera can function work the firmware based drivers, where all the support is offered any un-supported camera must be driven from linux, and doesnt get full support from RPF, it must instead be supported by the community

The RPI is pretty sad from a software freedoms point. The entire thing is backdoored with proprietary firmware and filled with DRM. Even the camera module uses DRM to communicate.

1vuio0pswjnm7 6y ago

However it does not come "bundled" with an OS. It is more versatile than many development boards in the sense of running different OS "out of the box". Granted the boot process is not ideal, but the design does give users a degree of freedom of choice in OS that many other SBCs do not. Most dev boards (certainly ones pre-RPi) are targeted at a single OS "out of the box": Linux. How many run Plan9. I read this complaint about the RPi firmware so often on HN but I have never read how it actually is being used to stop RPi owners from doing what they want with their RPi. It is theoretically a problem but in practice what has actually happened. There has been an enormous amount of tinkering with RPis, people are using them for all sorts of things, and are able to build on the work of others. DRM is important but viewing copyrighted works is not the only use for a computer. There is no perfect computer but the RPi for its OS-versatilty is arguably better than many others who fail miserably on that point. There are certainly better dev boards from a spec standpoint, but if it cannot boot off external media and is only intended to run a single OS, I think it is missing some "freedoms" that the RPi provides.

Renaud 6y ago
I tend to agree with you that pragmatism wins the day where the Rpi is concerned. However, the lack of open hardware for the Rpi means that it is not possible to replicate one at all. You basically can't make a Rpi-compatible board to suit your own needs. It isn't the fault of the Rpi fundation, it's the sorry lack of openness in electronics hardware that is to blame. Chip manufacturers license lots of IP from each other and I doubt we'll ever see a truly open microprocessor/controller that would have all its features accessible without restriction. We can hope that one day a RISC V implementation could be open, but then the GPU, controllers, etc would also need to be unencumbered. Of course, it would be possible for chip manufacturers to allow this licensing -maybe to the detriment of the cost of the chip- but it would need to really be profitable for them to go through the 'hassle'. After all, the die doesn't need to be open, we only need open access to all the functionalities of the chip.

azalemeth 6y ago

That's quite interesting -- I didn't know that the camera module was DRM'd. Do you have a reference for that statement? And is the "core" DRM just related to Widevine?

kingosticks 6y ago
It's not, really. People get confused about this: https://mobile.twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/1088440503622909952 https://mobile.twitter.com/EbenUpton/status/1088440503622909... I've personally no problem with them protecting their investment this way.

cleverca22 6y ago

https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=576143 https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?p=576143 > a China knockoff version of R-Pi camera board > It's happened to the company I work with, they were marketing a cheap copy of our consumer electronics device under our brand name and even our customer service phone #. the DRM in the camera, is to ensure only an authentic camera can function work the firmware based drivers, where all the support is offered any un-supported camera must be driven from linux, and doesnt get full support from RPF, it must instead be supported by the community