4 ms·

Becoming a "citizen of the IndieWeb"† seems to require you to be a web developer. Level 1 requires knowledge of HTML, or a CMS that exposes the rel attribute on

by bwclk 6y ago

Becoming a "citizen of the IndieWeb"† seems to require you to be a web developer. Level 1 requires knowledge of HTML, or a CMS that exposes the rel attribute on links (is that common?). Level 2 requires specific CSS classes and... more than I can summarize succinctly here. And there's still Level 3 to go. It's hard to see this growing beyond web developers unless it's baked into other software as an incidental. † https://indiewebify.me https://indiewebify.me - linked in the article as "a quick start to becoming a citizen of the IndieWeb"

rascul 6y ago
There is a list [0] which may be informative. Known [1] implements a number of IndieWeb things, and there are Wordpress plugins. [2] [0] https://indieweb.org/projects https://indieweb.org/projects [1] https://withknown.com/ https://withknown.com/ [2] https://indieweb.org/WordPress/Plugins https://indieweb.org/WordPress/Plugins
- bwclk 6y ago
  Those don't really steer it out of web developer territory though, do they? Known's an SSG, and unless WordPress has grown a lot I doubt it's a complete solution (not theme dependant, etc). That meta chat room is something. Is that how you came to this thread? It's strange to see dismissive comments in there but no outreach to the sources of them. Feels very cliquey.
  - rascul 6y ago
    > Known's an SSG Is SSG a static site generator? I'm pretty sure Known is a SQL database backed dynamic kind of thing. I looked at it several years ago and I don't remember it being static. > unless WordPress has grown a lot I doubt it's a complete solution (not theme dependant, etc) I know very little about WordPress. I do know there are IndieWeb plugins for it. To what extent WordPress might be a solution for you, I wouldn't have any idea. > That meta chat room is something. Is that how you came to this thread? I wasn't in the chat room. IndieWeb is something that I've had some interest in and I generally look at posts here about IndieWeb related stuff when they show up from time to time.
    - bwclk 6y ago
      > Is SSG a static site generator? I'm pretty sure Known is a SQL database backed dynamic kind of thing. I looked at it several years ago and I don't remember it being static. You're right, I glanced over it too quickly. Installing it is still too much for anyone without basic web development or system administration skills. > I know very little about WordPress. I do know there are IndieWeb plugins for it. To what extent WordPress might be usable for you, I wouldn't have any idea. From the chat log it's my understanding that the theme handles markup as opposed to plugins. So it seems unlikely that you could rely on plugins alone to get full functionality.
jlelse 6y ago
You're already a citizen of the IndieWeb by owning your website using your own domain.
- bwclk 6y ago
  If it's as broad as that then there's definitely some mixed messaging going on.
mro_name 6y ago
I guess you're right for now. What would you think of an onboarding experience like at https://demo.mro.name/shaarligo/o/p/ac2gthz https://demo.mro.name/shaarligo/o/p/ac2gthz
- bwclk 6y ago
  It's probably as simple as it gets given the set of constraints (I assume) you've set on yourself. To open it up to a wider audience you'd either have to have write some sort of provisioning tool (possibly a local app) or lean on someone else's (Linode marketplace, etc). DNS shouldn't be overlooked either as something troublesome for users.
  - mro_name 6y ago
    you would add a provisioning tool to get rid of download + upload? Hm. I consider that crucial for a user's control (agency) over it's digital property. To not depend on my tool for the existencial moments of creation and deletion of what is in between populated by my (other) tool.
    - bwclk 6y ago
      I don't see the distinction you're drawing. The ability for a user to get their data in and out of a system is crucial to a user's agency, as is the ability to provision and tear down a service at a name they control. UNIX system administration skills aren't a prerequisite for either of those things. That they are largely necessary today is a failing not a feature.
      - mro_name 6y ago
        I really appreciate your feedback and it helps me to understand how to lower the bar for entry and responsible usage. > UNIX system administration skills I refer to remote copying and ensuring proper permissions of a single file. And deleting in case. How more basic could it possibly be? The permissions may be embarrassing and peculiar for Microsofters, but adding other tooling doesn't simplify. Or as the saying goes, when swimming, you'll get wet.

by bwclk 6y ago

rascul 6y ago

There is a list [0] which may be informative. Known [1] implements a number of IndieWeb things, and there are Wordpress plugins. [2] [0] https://indieweb.org/projects https://indieweb.org/projects [1] https://withknown.com/ https://withknown.com/ [2] https://indieweb.org/WordPress/Plugins https://indieweb.org/WordPress/Plugins

bwclk 6y ago
Those don't really steer it out of web developer territory though, do they? Known's an SSG, and unless WordPress has grown a lot I doubt it's a complete solution (not theme dependant, etc). That meta chat room is something. Is that how you came to this thread? It's strange to see dismissive comments in there but no outreach to the sources of them. Feels very cliquey.
- rascul 6y ago
  > Known's an SSG Is SSG a static site generator? I'm pretty sure Known is a SQL database backed dynamic kind of thing. I looked at it several years ago and I don't remember it being static. > unless WordPress has grown a lot I doubt it's a complete solution (not theme dependant, etc) I know very little about WordPress. I do know there are IndieWeb plugins for it. To what extent WordPress might be a solution for you, I wouldn't have any idea. > That meta chat room is something. Is that how you came to this thread? I wasn't in the chat room. IndieWeb is something that I've had some interest in and I generally look at posts here about IndieWeb related stuff when they show up from time to time.
  - bwclk 6y ago
    > Is SSG a static site generator? I'm pretty sure Known is a SQL database backed dynamic kind of thing. I looked at it several years ago and I don't remember it being static. You're right, I glanced over it too quickly. Installing it is still too much for anyone without basic web development or system administration skills. > I know very little about WordPress. I do know there are IndieWeb plugins for it. To what extent WordPress might be usable for you, I wouldn't have any idea. From the chat log it's my understanding that the theme handles markup as opposed to plugins. So it seems unlikely that you could rely on plugins alone to get full functionality.

jlelse 6y ago

You're already a citizen of the IndieWeb by owning your website using your own domain.

bwclk 6y ago
If it's as broad as that then there's definitely some mixed messaging going on.

mro_name 6y ago

I guess you're right for now. What would you think of an onboarding experience like at https://demo.mro.name/shaarligo/o/p/ac2gthz https://demo.mro.name/shaarligo/o/p/ac2gthz

bwclk 6y ago
It's probably as simple as it gets given the set of constraints (I assume) you've set on yourself. To open it up to a wider audience you'd either have to have write some sort of provisioning tool (possibly a local app) or lean on someone else's (Linode marketplace, etc). DNS shouldn't be overlooked either as something troublesome for users.
- mro_name 6y ago
  you would add a provisioning tool to get rid of download + upload? Hm. I consider that crucial for a user's control (agency) over it's digital property. To not depend on my tool for the existencial moments of creation and deletion of what is in between populated by my (other) tool.
  - bwclk 6y ago
    I don't see the distinction you're drawing. The ability for a user to get their data in and out of a system is crucial to a user's agency, as is the ability to provision and tear down a service at a name they control. UNIX system administration skills aren't a prerequisite for either of those things. That they are largely necessary today is a failing not a feature.
    - mro_name 6y ago
      I really appreciate your feedback and it helps me to understand how to lower the bar for entry and responsible usage. > UNIX system administration skills I refer to remote copying and ensuring proper permissions of a single file. And deleting in case. How more basic could it possibly be? The permissions may be embarrassing and peculiar for Microsofters, but adding other tooling doesn't simplify. Or as the saying goes, when swimming, you'll get wet.