3 ms·

> it's been done before without funding, it can be done again. What has been done, specifically? Do not compare the effort of IceWeasel (and the many mozilla-

> it's been done before without funding, it can be done again. What has been done, specifically? Do not compare the effort of IceWeasel (and the many mozilla-less forks of Firefox that came at that time: basically just keep a folder with different set of resources and some automated build with a few different variables) with the work of keeping a fork with code that needs be "frozen in time, except for backported CVE fixes". Not only it's a different type of job (the first can be mostly automated, the second requires an ongoing process and effort from highly specialized professionals) it was also required for legal reasons, so it was at best a hurdle and no actual benefit. > I believe that the community would be better off if this existed. Yet, you are not willing to contribute anything to make this happen. You'd be willing to reap the benefits from it, but not to actually put in any effort. Show some willingness to put skin in the game, otherwise all your "beliefs" are nothing but hot air.

ohazi 6y ago
> Yet, you are not willing to contribute anything to make this happen. You'd be willing to reap the benefits from it, but not to actually put in any effort. Show some willingness to put skin in the game, otherwise all your "beliefs" are nothing but hot air. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I wouldn't contribute something to make this happen, but this is the second time you've insinuated as much. Enough. I never claimed that this should happen without funding. I stated that I believe it's possible for this to happen without funding. None of those statements are equivalent.
- rglullis 6y ago
  > I never said I wouldn't contribute something to make this happen, I asked if you are willing to pay, you said no. So let me ask: is there any way that you are willing to contribute? Will you volunteer? Will you review the fork? What is going to be your share of sacrifice to the "community"? Are you going to do this continuously or find a successor? It's not just "funding" that I am talking about. Moreover: if this is so important for you and if you believe that more people share your values, why don't you lead by example and start doing this instead of waiting for others?
  - ohazi 6y ago
    That is not what you asked, and for the third time, that is not what I said. You asked: "Does the person doing the work need to be paid?" Which I interpreted to mean: "Is this project doomed to fail if the developers are not monetarily compensated?" I answered: "No, I don't believe this project will necessarily fail if the developers aren't paid." I did not say that I wouldn't fund, work on, promote, organize, or otherwise support such a project. I made no statements about whether I would or wouldn't support such a project, other than to say that "I think this would be a good idea," yet you've repeatedly brought these elements into the conversation as a bludgeon so that you can claim that either my principles are dumb, or that I'm not principled enough.
    - rglullis 6y ago
      Read again: > Are you willing to pay for it? How much? Can you get more people to commit to it? For how long?
      - ohazi 6y ago
        That is not the question I explicitly quoted when I answered "no." I deliberately did not answer this second question.
        rglullis 6y ago
        Yeah, I know. Can you answer it, then?
        ohazi 6y ago
        So that you can turn my answer into another ad hominem attack? No, I don't think I will.
        rglullis 6y ago
        What ad hominem? It's not about you or your character. I am not trying to argue that your "belief" is right or wrong. This is up to you. What I am asking is "how strongly are you willing to stand behind your belief?" It's a simple filter to check if you will continue to hold your belief if it costs you something to defend it. It's just a test of Skin in the Game.

ohazi 6y ago

> Yet, you are not willing to contribute anything to make this happen. You'd be willing to reap the benefits from it, but not to actually put in any effort. Show some willingness to put skin in the game, otherwise all your "beliefs" are nothing but hot air. Once again, stop putting words in my mouth. I never said I wouldn't contribute something to make this happen, but this is the second time you've insinuated as much. Enough. I never claimed that this should happen without funding. I stated that I believe it's possible for this to happen without funding. None of those statements are equivalent.

rglullis 6y ago
> I never said I wouldn't contribute something to make this happen, I asked if you are willing to pay, you said no. So let me ask: is there any way that you are willing to contribute? Will you volunteer? Will you review the fork? What is going to be your share of sacrifice to the "community"? Are you going to do this continuously or find a successor? It's not just "funding" that I am talking about. Moreover: if this is so important for you and if you believe that more people share your values, why don't you lead by example and start doing this instead of waiting for others?
- ohazi 6y ago
  That is not what you asked, and for the third time, that is not what I said. You asked: "Does the person doing the work need to be paid?" Which I interpreted to mean: "Is this project doomed to fail if the developers are not monetarily compensated?" I answered: "No, I don't believe this project will necessarily fail if the developers aren't paid." I did not say that I wouldn't fund, work on, promote, organize, or otherwise support such a project. I made no statements about whether I would or wouldn't support such a project, other than to say that "I think this would be a good idea," yet you've repeatedly brought these elements into the conversation as a bludgeon so that you can claim that either my principles are dumb, or that I'm not principled enough.
  - rglullis 6y ago
    Read again: > Are you willing to pay for it? How much? Can you get more people to commit to it? For how long?
    - ohazi 6y ago
      That is not the question I explicitly quoted when I answered "no." I deliberately did not answer this second question.
      - rglullis 6y ago
        Yeah, I know. Can you answer it, then?
        ohazi 6y ago
        So that you can turn my answer into another ad hominem attack? No, I don't think I will.
        rglullis 6y ago
        What ad hominem? It's not about you or your character. I am not trying to argue that your "belief" is right or wrong. This is up to you. What I am asking is "how strongly are you willing to stand behind your belief?" It's a simple filter to check if you will continue to hold your belief if it costs you something to defend it. It's just a test of Skin in the Game.