8 ms·

Apple's iOS 5 coming this Fall

44 points by shadow 15y ago

TheloniusPhunk 15y ago
This is all pretty exciting, but I want more exterior button shortcuts. Also, why can't I search text fields on my meager 3Gs?
ben1040 15y ago
I wonder what the fallout from folks like Instapaper and Tap Tap Tap will be. It seems kind of shady for Apple to say Tap Tap Tap's Camera+ couldn't have volume button as a shutter (because it was a UX rule violation), then six months later implement that feature right into iOS.
- headhuntermdk 15y ago
  "Shady" is a much nicer word than I would have used..
- Pewpewarrows 15y ago
  Welcome to development on a closed system and platform (iOS). Sure, it has its fair share of advantages, but then you also have to deal with shenanigans like this.
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    Being closed isn't relevant here. If Ubuntu built this feature into the OS the same thing would happen to 3rd parties. The lesson is about hitching your wagon to one platform. Marco has been an outspoken "iOS only" developer and part of me wants to see him eat crow for taking that position. But that's not fair, at the end of the day he's a smart guy and he'll either adjust or come up with another killer idea. He made the smart play at the right time, but all good things come to an end.
    - tptacek 15y ago
      What does this have to do with him being iOS-only? If he build iP for Android, wouldn't the overwhelming majority of his revenue would still come from iOS, and be just as threatened?
      - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        They would still be threatened, but less so, because being multi-platform is a feature that differentiates from Apple's. I'm pretty sure Read it Later isn't sweating as much about this, because they have the single best Android app and the single best Web app of this category. They also have a very good iPhone and iPad app that some iOS-only users will have a less of an interest in. But for others they can sell on larger availability than what Apple offers.
        tptacek 15y ago
        I don't think that's how it works. At the end of the day, what matters is his revenue graph. If almost all his revenue comres from iOS, and Reading List muddies the water enough to cut into that, the "cross platform" checkbox isn't going to save him, because it's not relevant to the majority of people who pay him. I don't think iP is doomed, for what it's worth; I just don't think this is the answer.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        Almost all of his revenue comes from iOS because he almost exclusively develops for iOS. How much this stings is directly proportionate to how much he's invested into this one platform; in his case it's near 100%. In Evernote's case, they could (if they were in this position) take the blow, pivot a little if necessary, and continue moving forward.
        tptacek 15y ago
        The subtext here is that people with cross-platform apps tend to report that the majority of their revenue comes from iOS, so that comment isn't really responsive.
  - rimantas 15y ago
    How much wait till some open platform pays $2.5 billion to developers?
- itg 15y ago
  You can never make everyone happy. Don't include enough new features, and get complaints that your doing nothing new; add new stuff, then complaints about stepping over toes of developers with similar apps.
  - martythemaniak 15y ago
    Integrating features from apps is a bit of an asshole move, but at least everyone does it. They pulled that app and threatened the devs because it hacked the buttons. You don't see the difference?
    - tptacek 15y ago
      Not really. I think everyone knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that Apple gets to say what all the hardware buttons do. To what other end would Apple do anything with that authority other than to benefit Apple? This wasn't some random feature that Apple capriciously decided wasn't allowed. It's not like they told Marco, "you're not allowed to make, save, and sync readable versions of web articles". The application you're talking about changed the behavior of the hardware buttons on the phone. Nobody was really surprised that Apple objected to that.
      - wnight 15y ago
        Users who liked the feature might have been a bit surprised. It's not like the app randomly mucked with the UI, it did precisely what the user requested - nobody needed to be saved.
- martythemaniak 15y ago
  They are a bunch of assholes. I wonder what all the people defending Apple at the time ("it's not right to hijack the buttons! How dare they presume to ship such hacks to uesrs!") have to say now? Probably something about how brilliant Apple is...
- guywithabike 15y ago
  Marco (Instapaper) has said a number of times on his 5 by 5 podcast that he thinks Reading List either wont affect him much, or it will be a net positive (in terms of sales for him). I think he's correct in believing that Reading List will be a good gateway drug for the people who have never heard of Instapaper but will soon get hooked on the idea and potentially look for a more powerful version of the same tool. What's "shady" about Apple listening to criticism and allowing the hardware shutter button? Would you rather that they stuck to their original position?
  - swilliams 15y ago
    I don't think he realized that Reading List was going to be on iOS too. Here's his exact response during the keynote: https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504
    - GHFigs 15y ago
      https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77799506602762241 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77799506602762241 Glad I've invested in social and editorial features. Not dead yet!
  - btucker 15y ago
    It seems Marco's views have shifted somewhat after seeing the demo: https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 I think Instapaper will still be very successful. He may need to raise the price & focus on a smaller "Pro" user-base, though.
- msbarnett 15y ago
  So what's the solution here? To me the outcry over this seems pretty contradictory given the general antipathy around here towards software patents. Either ideas are something that an individual can own and control and others are forbidden to use without permission, or everybody is free to implement them and innovate around them. Is Marco going to have to do some work now to differentiate himself from Reading List? Totally. But is that a bad thing? He was no more entitled to a competition-free perpetual business model than the Record Labels or Movie Studios or Banking Industry or any other perennial target around here. Marco is a smart and skilled guy and there's no way this is going to kill him off unless he willingly lets it.
  - nathanb 15y ago
    I agree completely; you can't have it both ways. However, the point in the OP about Camera+ seems a bit more legit. Rejecting an app for doing X and then doing X yourself in the next release seems like a huge double-standard, and where there are double standards there is foothold for allegations of anti-competitive behavior. That said, however, the difference between me (sitting in a cubicle typing this) and the creative forces behind Instapaper and Camera+ is (hopefully) that where I see small developers being turned into digital sharecroppers by a dictatorial corporation, they see an opportunity to differentiate themselves from the stock offering by excelling in the very specific area they're focusing on.
    - alanfalcon 15y ago
      Actually, the Camera+ developers filed a feature request and asked Apple to add the volume-button-as-shutter feature. See: http://taptaptap.com/blog/cameraplus-volumesnap-rejected/ http://taptaptap.com/blog/cameraplus-volumesnap-rejected/ So I imagine they're pretty happy with this development.
  - wnight 15y ago
    Remember Ballmer chanting "Developers! Developers! ..."? Well, here Apple is saying "Screw the developers". Sure, they have a right to do this, and perhaps an obligations, but the developers put out business without warning probably won't keep developing for Apple. Over time that will work to reduce developer uptake, and thus app selection on iOS, which is why they perhaps should have chosen to somehow lessen the blow to unlucky developers.
- lukifer 15y ago
  I really feel for the folks at Red Pop today: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/786496402/red-pop http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/786496402/red-pop
  - anko 15y ago
    that was my first thought too - i was going to buy one of these today, now I think I'll wait until ios5 and see if i still want it.
- alanh 15y ago
  Oh, please. I am not buying it. The selling point of iOS is the user experience, and part of that experience was that hardware buttons act predictably, in every context. Was. Realizing how important the camera has become, they are reprioritizing the photo experience above the universally-consistent-hardware experience. If you don’t think this topic was internally debated over and over at Apple, long before TapTapTap submitted their app, you don’t get Apple.
zrgiu 15y ago
iOS 5, a tribute to Android - OTA updates - wireles sync - notification in the title bar.. really?
ljlolel 15y ago
EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S with the newest Android recently. Using it, I learned that Android is, frankly, today, ahead of iOS on the phone side. Android's notification system is better. It's so much better, that Apple directly copied it. Android's hardware back button works, it works well, and it frees up more screen real estate for useful content. Android's home button is more consistent. Its apps are more powerful, google talk video works great. Its wireless seamless binary-only updates are revolutionary. Apple has fallen behind, and will only catch up with iOS 5 in the Fall. Of course, I fully expect Google to innovate further and be even farther ahead in 2012. The coolest thing by far, and this is something that Apple won't have in the foreseeable near future, is voice recognition. Google's voice commands work suspiciously well. I find it far easier to press a button and say "text John Appleseed: Hey, let's go to the movies tomorrow at 3" than to navigate menus and type it in. Google's tech recognizes words and phrases I wouldn't expect it to. Apple still has more apps, but that won't last for too much longer. I have an iPad 2, and I love it, but my next phone will be a Droid.
- deleted 15y ago
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- deleted 15y ago
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- rimantas 15y ago
  The subtle (and not so subtle to others) difference is that iOS will have these features polished. Android just has them.
  - joebadmo 15y ago
    I generally prefer to have unpolished features available to me to use or not use. If they are polished enough to be useable for me, then I use them. If not, then I don't. I like being able to decide. Which is why I generally prefer android to iOS, I guess. Many others obviously prefer otherwise.
rebelidealist 15y ago
I would say less than 3% of local business owners can understand the items that he is saying. If your customers don't get it, getting them to signup is very costly.
kenjackson 15y ago
iOS5 was surprisingly underwhelming, given how long its been since they shipped iOS4. This certainly won't stop the train known as Android. I really don't see this changing the iOS sales trajectory upward at all.
- rimantas 15y ago
  Do you imply that current trajectory is downward? And Apple does not sell iOS, it sells iPhone, iPod touch and iPads with that OS. I am sure iPad sales are not going to go down any time soon.
  - kenjackson 15y ago
    No, I don't mean to imply that. I was trying to say that they have a current relative trajectory (flat on iPhone/iPod, solidly up, but slower than anticipated after Q1 launch on iPad) -- and this trajectory doesn't seem to change any more upward after this. In particular relative to Android. To put it another way, if they didn't do this release at all and just continued to sell iPhones with iOS 4.x on it for the next 12 months, I don't think we'd see a difference in their sales numbers. I think this is a testament to the current quality of their devices and OS. But it does feel like we've entered Mac circa 1991. It's getting long in the tooth and the improvements are really small, while a competitor with a late start is showing signs of accelerating.
    - rimantas 15y ago
      I am not so sure about flat sale of iPhone and iPod but have no data on that, so won't argue. Comparison of Android vs. iOS devices bothers me a bit every time, because it is just one manufacturer with handful of products vs. dozens manufacturers with gazillion devices.
      - kenjackson 15y ago
        Here's one datapoint: http://gigaom.com/apple/iphone-flat-in-u-s-as-android-takes-market-share-lead/ http://gigaom.com/apple/iphone-flat-in-u-s-as-android-takes-... Apple has great margins, so they'll do fine, even if they stay at 25% marketshare forever. But it seems to be clearer that Android is going to run away with this. The only real question is, who takes the #3 spot. RIM, MS, or HP? I think there will be 3 players in this space. Two are locked in. The last has yet to be decided.
51Cards 15y ago
I am going to make this comment and it might be unpopular but it is definitely not meant to be a slag against iOS. I am noticing that a lot of the new iOS features are "missing features" from other mobile OSs... and since I'm really only familiar with iOS and Android so I can only compare those but a short list: - centralized notification tray - OTA activation - OTA synching - OTA updates - optimized updates - reminders that sync with your calendar - hardware camera buttons - data sych to the cloud (though iCloud is much more complete than Google account sync) - iMessage is being compared to BBM This is a great for iOS and quite overdue. But at the risk of offending the Apple fans, am I the only one who feels that this update to iOS contains a lot of things that are just to maintain feature parity with other systems vs. outright innovation? Just seemed that much of the features list for iOS this year had a different feel from years past. Maybe it's just me.
- bryanh 15y ago
  You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.
  - ljlolel 15y ago
    I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features. iOS 5 isn't innovating. iOS 5 is copying. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone 6 has a hardware back button like android. The iPad still innovates, and hopefully Apple has a cool new product around the corner.
    - jamesaguilar 15y ago
      I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much against Apple adding another hardware button of any kind except maybe a camera button. I agree that a lot of Apple's advantage came from innovating. But a lot of the advantage also comes from taking features that other devices have done and doing them better. For example, Android does not show collated notifications on the home screen by default, and you can't interact with notifications without unlocking the screen and pulling down. iPhone's proposed implementation looks a lot better than what Android has. This happened with copy and paste too, and Android still has not caught up (no universal method for copy-and-paste). I don't care if Apple copies or innovates. What I care about is that iPhone is still (and after this next release, will to an even greater extent be) the best phone money can buy. How it got that way is immaterial to most of their potential customers.
dendory 15y ago
You don't need to watch the keynote, their video is pretty well done to show all the new iOS 5 features: http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/gallery.html#video-ios http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/gallery.html#video-ios
- hexley 15y ago
  They said there is 200 new features. That certainly isn't all of them.
steveb 15y ago
Apple is trying to build a massive moat around their iOS/OSX ecosystem. If they can execute, it will be difficult for competitors to convert iOS users to other platforms. -Applications synced across multiple devices -music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content) -Integration with iTouch/iPad/iPhone docks and accessories -iMessage/Facetime lock in for user accounts -Gamecenter achievements -OSX integration and "feel" -Reduce the need for a PC with wireless updates and sync (probably 75% of iOS users are on Windows) The average user will have to face the prospect of changing out a lot of their software as they become more integrated into Apple's ecosystem.
- YooLi 15y ago
  I see it more as adding value I want instead of a moat/lock in. If integration in Apple's ecosystem gets me Applications synced across multiple devices, music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content), etc., count me in.
- mikecarlucci 15y ago
  Not that I game enough on either platform for it to matter, but a unified gaming profile including Xbox Live and GameCenter (among others like Yahoo Fantasy Sports) would be fantastic. Never going to happen though.
blhack 15y ago
Are we going to finally have the ability to upload photos out of safari? How apple gets away with this is beyond me. There is no technical reason that I can imagine why allowing photo uploads from mobile safari should be disabled.

44 points by shadow 15y ago

This is all pretty exciting, but I want more exterior button shortcuts. Also, why can't I search text fields on my meager 3Gs?

ben1040 15y ago

I wonder what the fallout from folks like Instapaper and Tap Tap Tap will be. It seems kind of shady for Apple to say Tap Tap Tap's Camera+ couldn't have volume button as a shutter (because it was a UX rule violation), then six months later implement that feature right into iOS.

headhuntermdk 15y ago
"Shady" is a much nicer word than I would have used..
Pewpewarrows 15y ago
Welcome to development on a closed system and platform (iOS). Sure, it has its fair share of advantages, but then you also have to deal with shenanigans like this.
- MatthewPhillips 15y ago
  Being closed isn't relevant here. If Ubuntu built this feature into the OS the same thing would happen to 3rd parties. The lesson is about hitching your wagon to one platform. Marco has been an outspoken "iOS only" developer and part of me wants to see him eat crow for taking that position. But that's not fair, at the end of the day he's a smart guy and he'll either adjust or come up with another killer idea. He made the smart play at the right time, but all good things come to an end.
  - tptacek 15y ago
    What does this have to do with him being iOS-only? If he build iP for Android, wouldn't the overwhelming majority of his revenue would still come from iOS, and be just as threatened?
    - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
      They would still be threatened, but less so, because being multi-platform is a feature that differentiates from Apple's. I'm pretty sure Read it Later isn't sweating as much about this, because they have the single best Android app and the single best Web app of this category. They also have a very good iPhone and iPad app that some iOS-only users will have a less of an interest in. But for others they can sell on larger availability than what Apple offers.
      - tptacek 15y ago
        I don't think that's how it works. At the end of the day, what matters is his revenue graph. If almost all his revenue comres from iOS, and Reading List muddies the water enough to cut into that, the "cross platform" checkbox isn't going to save him, because it's not relevant to the majority of people who pay him. I don't think iP is doomed, for what it's worth; I just don't think this is the answer.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        Almost all of his revenue comes from iOS because he almost exclusively develops for iOS. How much this stings is directly proportionate to how much he's invested into this one platform; in his case it's near 100%. In Evernote's case, they could (if they were in this position) take the blow, pivot a little if necessary, and continue moving forward.
        tptacek 15y ago
        The subtext here is that people with cross-platform apps tend to report that the majority of their revenue comes from iOS, so that comment isn't really responsive.
- rimantas 15y ago
  How much wait till some open platform pays $2.5 billion to developers?
itg 15y ago
You can never make everyone happy. Don't include enough new features, and get complaints that your doing nothing new; add new stuff, then complaints about stepping over toes of developers with similar apps.
- martythemaniak 15y ago
  Integrating features from apps is a bit of an asshole move, but at least everyone does it. They pulled that app and threatened the devs because it hacked the buttons. You don't see the difference?
  - tptacek 15y ago
    Not really. I think everyone knows, whether they want to admit it or not, that Apple gets to say what all the hardware buttons do. To what other end would Apple do anything with that authority other than to benefit Apple? This wasn't some random feature that Apple capriciously decided wasn't allowed. It's not like they told Marco, "you're not allowed to make, save, and sync readable versions of web articles". The application you're talking about changed the behavior of the hardware buttons on the phone. Nobody was really surprised that Apple objected to that.
    - wnight 15y ago
      Users who liked the feature might have been a bit surprised. It's not like the app randomly mucked with the UI, it did precisely what the user requested - nobody needed to be saved.
martythemaniak 15y ago
They are a bunch of assholes. I wonder what all the people defending Apple at the time ("it's not right to hijack the buttons! How dare they presume to ship such hacks to uesrs!") have to say now? Probably something about how brilliant Apple is...
guywithabike 15y ago
Marco (Instapaper) has said a number of times on his 5 by 5 podcast that he thinks Reading List either wont affect him much, or it will be a net positive (in terms of sales for him). I think he's correct in believing that Reading List will be a good gateway drug for the people who have never heard of Instapaper but will soon get hooked on the idea and potentially look for a more powerful version of the same tool. What's "shady" about Apple listening to criticism and allowing the hardware shutter button? Would you rather that they stuck to their original position?
- swilliams 15y ago
  I don't think he realized that Reading List was going to be on iOS too. Here's his exact response during the keynote: https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504
  - GHFigs 15y ago
    https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77799506602762241 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77799506602762241 Glad I've invested in social and editorial features. Not dead yet!
- btucker 15y ago
  It seems Marco's views have shifted somewhat after seeing the demo: https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 https://twitter.com/#!/marcoarment/status/77796293510037504 I think Instapaper will still be very successful. He may need to raise the price & focus on a smaller "Pro" user-base, though.
msbarnett 15y ago
So what's the solution here? To me the outcry over this seems pretty contradictory given the general antipathy around here towards software patents. Either ideas are something that an individual can own and control and others are forbidden to use without permission, or everybody is free to implement them and innovate around them. Is Marco going to have to do some work now to differentiate himself from Reading List? Totally. But is that a bad thing? He was no more entitled to a competition-free perpetual business model than the Record Labels or Movie Studios or Banking Industry or any other perennial target around here. Marco is a smart and skilled guy and there's no way this is going to kill him off unless he willingly lets it.
- nathanb 15y ago
  I agree completely; you can't have it both ways. However, the point in the OP about Camera+ seems a bit more legit. Rejecting an app for doing X and then doing X yourself in the next release seems like a huge double-standard, and where there are double standards there is foothold for allegations of anti-competitive behavior. That said, however, the difference between me (sitting in a cubicle typing this) and the creative forces behind Instapaper and Camera+ is (hopefully) that where I see small developers being turned into digital sharecroppers by a dictatorial corporation, they see an opportunity to differentiate themselves from the stock offering by excelling in the very specific area they're focusing on.
  - alanfalcon 15y ago
    Actually, the Camera+ developers filed a feature request and asked Apple to add the volume-button-as-shutter feature. See: http://taptaptap.com/blog/cameraplus-volumesnap-rejected/ http://taptaptap.com/blog/cameraplus-volumesnap-rejected/ So I imagine they're pretty happy with this development.
- wnight 15y ago
  Remember Ballmer chanting "Developers! Developers! ..."? Well, here Apple is saying "Screw the developers". Sure, they have a right to do this, and perhaps an obligations, but the developers put out business without warning probably won't keep developing for Apple. Over time that will work to reduce developer uptake, and thus app selection on iOS, which is why they perhaps should have chosen to somehow lessen the blow to unlucky developers.
lukifer 15y ago
I really feel for the folks at Red Pop today: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/786496402/red-pop http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/786496402/red-pop
- anko 15y ago
  that was my first thought too - i was going to buy one of these today, now I think I'll wait until ios5 and see if i still want it.
alanh 15y ago
Oh, please. I am not buying it. The selling point of iOS is the user experience, and part of that experience was that hardware buttons act predictably, in every context. Was. Realizing how important the camera has become, they are reprioritizing the photo experience above the universally-consistent-hardware experience. If you don’t think this topic was internally debated over and over at Apple, long before TapTapTap submitted their app, you don’t get Apple.

zrgiu 15y ago

iOS 5, a tribute to Android - OTA updates - wireles sync - notification in the title bar.. really?

ljlolel 15y ago

EDIT: who would downvote this? (I'm saying that iOS 5 is nice, but it's mostly just adding features that directly copy its competitor Android, and not even all of them. Android had been copying in 2009-2010, but now it's Apple. A lot of people, even devs, don't realize that Droid has had all these features for months. I hadn't.) I have an iPhone 4, I've had iPhones for 4 years. I love the iPhone. I tried a Nexus S with the newest Android recently. Using it, I learned that Android is, frankly, today, ahead of iOS on the phone side. Android's notification system is better. It's so much better, that Apple directly copied it. Android's hardware back button works, it works well, and it frees up more screen real estate for useful content. Android's home button is more consistent. Its apps are more powerful, google talk video works great. Its wireless seamless binary-only updates are revolutionary. Apple has fallen behind, and will only catch up with iOS 5 in the Fall. Of course, I fully expect Google to innovate further and be even farther ahead in 2012. The coolest thing by far, and this is something that Apple won't have in the foreseeable near future, is voice recognition. Google's voice commands work suspiciously well. I find it far easier to press a button and say "text John Appleseed: Hey, let's go to the movies tomorrow at 3" than to navigate menus and type it in. Google's tech recognizes words and phrases I wouldn't expect it to. Apple still has more apps, but that won't last for too much longer. I have an iPad 2, and I love it, but my next phone will be a Droid.

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rimantas 15y ago
The subtle (and not so subtle to others) difference is that iOS will have these features polished. Android just has them.
- joebadmo 15y ago
  I generally prefer to have unpolished features available to me to use or not use. If they are polished enough to be useable for me, then I use them. If not, then I don't. I like being able to decide. Which is why I generally prefer android to iOS, I guess. Many others obviously prefer otherwise.

rebelidealist 15y ago

I would say less than 3% of local business owners can understand the items that he is saying. If your customers don't get it, getting them to signup is very costly.

kenjackson 15y ago

iOS5 was surprisingly underwhelming, given how long its been since they shipped iOS4. This certainly won't stop the train known as Android. I really don't see this changing the iOS sales trajectory upward at all.

rimantas 15y ago
Do you imply that current trajectory is downward? And Apple does not sell iOS, it sells iPhone, iPod touch and iPads with that OS. I am sure iPad sales are not going to go down any time soon.
- kenjackson 15y ago
  No, I don't mean to imply that. I was trying to say that they have a current relative trajectory (flat on iPhone/iPod, solidly up, but slower than anticipated after Q1 launch on iPad) -- and this trajectory doesn't seem to change any more upward after this. In particular relative to Android. To put it another way, if they didn't do this release at all and just continued to sell iPhones with iOS 4.x on it for the next 12 months, I don't think we'd see a difference in their sales numbers. I think this is a testament to the current quality of their devices and OS. But it does feel like we've entered Mac circa 1991. It's getting long in the tooth and the improvements are really small, while a competitor with a late start is showing signs of accelerating.
  - rimantas 15y ago
    I am not so sure about flat sale of iPhone and iPod but have no data on that, so won't argue. Comparison of Android vs. iOS devices bothers me a bit every time, because it is just one manufacturer with handful of products vs. dozens manufacturers with gazillion devices.
    - kenjackson 15y ago
      Here's one datapoint: http://gigaom.com/apple/iphone-flat-in-u-s-as-android-takes-market-share-lead/ http://gigaom.com/apple/iphone-flat-in-u-s-as-android-takes-... Apple has great margins, so they'll do fine, even if they stay at 25% marketshare forever. But it seems to be clearer that Android is going to run away with this. The only real question is, who takes the #3 spot. RIM, MS, or HP? I think there will be 3 players in this space. Two are locked in. The last has yet to be decided.

51Cards 15y ago

I am going to make this comment and it might be unpopular but it is definitely not meant to be a slag against iOS. I am noticing that a lot of the new iOS features are "missing features" from other mobile OSs... and since I'm really only familiar with iOS and Android so I can only compare those but a short list: - centralized notification tray - OTA activation - OTA synching - OTA updates - optimized updates - reminders that sync with your calendar - hardware camera buttons - data sych to the cloud (though iCloud is much more complete than Google account sync) - iMessage is being compared to BBM This is a great for iOS and quite overdue. But at the risk of offending the Apple fans, am I the only one who feels that this update to iOS contains a lot of things that are just to maintain feature parity with other systems vs. outright innovation? Just seemed that much of the features list for iOS this year had a different feel from years past. Maybe it's just me.

bryanh 15y ago
You are right, but this is exactly how Apple works. Start with very few features and polish to a pristine sheen. Then add new features and proclaim the world is changing. It certainly has been working for them, and generally, isn't that the type of product development advice anyone in HN would give you? Start simple, polish and iterate.
- ljlolel 15y ago
  I would not say that this is "how apple works." Apple innovates very well. The iPhone won not because it had an abstract "pristine sheen", it was just a better phone that innovated in the right ways: Maps worked great, Safari was a full browser in the phone, and other features. It's software keyboard worked well and enabled a large screen for capacitive touch and multimedia. iPhone 1 had a plentitude of new features. iOS 5 isn't innovating. iOS 5 is copying. I wouldn't be surprised if iPhone 6 has a hardware back button like android. The iPad still innovates, and hopefully Apple has a cool new product around the corner.
  - jamesaguilar 15y ago
    I really doubt we'll see a hardware back button on iOS. That is a misfeature of Android because of its inconsistent behavior -- if you came to one activity from an activity in another app, how do you go to the parent view in the current app? The back button takes you to the activity from which you came, not to the parent view. I think most iOS users are fine with how back works in iOS; personally I would be very much against Apple adding another hardware button of any kind except maybe a camera button. I agree that a lot of Apple's advantage came from innovating. But a lot of the advantage also comes from taking features that other devices have done and doing them better. For example, Android does not show collated notifications on the home screen by default, and you can't interact with notifications without unlocking the screen and pulling down. iPhone's proposed implementation looks a lot better than what Android has. This happened with copy and paste too, and Android still has not caught up (no universal method for copy-and-paste). I don't care if Apple copies or innovates. What I care about is that iPhone is still (and after this next release, will to an even greater extent be) the best phone money can buy. How it got that way is immaterial to most of their potential customers.

dendory 15y ago

You don't need to watch the keynote, their video is pretty well done to show all the new iOS 5 features: http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/gallery.html#video-ios http://www.apple.com/ios/ios5/gallery.html#video-ios

hexley 15y ago
They said there is 200 new features. That certainly isn't all of them.

steveb 15y ago

Apple is trying to build a massive moat around their iOS/OSX ecosystem. If they can execute, it will be difficult for competitors to convert iOS users to other platforms. -Applications synced across multiple devices -music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content) -Integration with iTouch/iPad/iPhone docks and accessories -iMessage/Facetime lock in for user accounts -Gamecenter achievements -OSX integration and "feel" -Reduce the need for a PC with wireless updates and sync (probably 75% of iOS users are on Windows) The average user will have to face the prospect of changing out a lot of their software as they become more integrated into Apple's ecosystem.

YooLi 15y ago
I see it more as adding value I want instead of a moat/lock in. If integration in Apple's ecosystem gets me Applications synced across multiple devices, music, photos, calendars, apps in iCloud (including your ripped content), etc., count me in.
mikecarlucci 15y ago
Not that I game enough on either platform for it to matter, but a unified gaming profile including Xbox Live and GameCenter (among others like Yahoo Fantasy Sports) would be fantastic. Never going to happen though.

blhack 15y ago

Are we going to finally have the ability to upload photos out of safari? How apple gets away with this is beyond me. There is no technical reason that I can imagine why allowing photo uploads from mobile safari should be disabled.