8 ms·

It will be great if you can speak these opinions out loud in the office and in public. I know it’s hard because so many Israelis have strong opinions about rega

It will be great if you can speak these opinions out loud in the office and in public. I know it’s hard because so many Israelis have strong opinions about regarding Zionism and the native population which Jewish immigrants displaced but the only way people will stop ignoring the injustice is if people like you speak out in public. It is also nice to read your comments here also.

revnode 6y ago
> the native population which Jewish immigrants displaced This happens everywhere, at all times. People are constantly moving around. Yet you seem to be fixated on the Jews. Is there a reason for this fixation?
- woah 6y ago
  This is a thread on that part of the world. It’s insane that you would insinuate antisemitism because someone made a relevant comment about the region.
  - revnode 6y ago
    Can you point me toward other threads about other parts of the world where a particular ethnicity is singled out in a negative light for immigrating? I'll take back everything I said if you can find ONE.
    - woah 6y ago
      Han Chinese in Xinjiang today? Anglo Americans immigrating to Western North America in the 1800's? Germany's failed attempt to immigrate to eastern Europe in the 1940's? All of these are rightfully singled out in a negative light.
      - revnode 6y ago
        Here is the link to today's discussion of what is happening in China: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253886 There is not a single mention of Han Chinese immigration to Xinjiang, in either positive or negative light. The Jews who immigrated to Israel were fleeing persecution at home and you chose to attack them. That is shameful and you should be ashamed of yourself. All people have the right to live wherever they choose, whether they be Jews, Arabs, or any ethnicity. Singling people out based on their ethnicity ... well, that's just racist, isn't it?
    - core-questions 6y ago
      There's a vast difference between legitimate, legal, welcomed immigration and invasion sanctioned by foreign states that results in the creation of an occupied territory, but you already knew that.
      - marshmallow_12 6y ago
        colonies? (like, every single one of them, past and present)
        core-questions 6y ago
        I mean, if you think that a land that is filled with 20th century cities and has a documented history of being highly populated for thousands of years is the same thing as a continent that is practically empty, I don't know what to tell you.
        marshmallow_12 6y ago
        South America had cities. (not 20th century, admittedly). The settlement of south africa involved murdering a large amount of natives... I'm not not sure what to tell you!
        core-questions 6y ago
        Wait, you said South America and South Africa. The former certainly had cities; the latter was mostly wasteland with some amount of nomadic peoples who couldn't stay in one place because living off the land in one place was impossible without agriculture. Vastly different situation. Either way, sounds like another case of wrongdoing that doesn't excuse anyone else's actions. What is my takeaway from this supposed to be? Murdering Palestinians with sniper rifles and lobbing bombs at them is OK because someone a hundred years ago elsewhere did something entirely unrelated that was evil? Or that colonialism is just generally OK overall and should be fine? Where's the nuance, man?
fortran77 6y ago
My Jewish family was kicked out of Gaza in 1929. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#Jewish_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#Jewish_co... You've probably never been to Israel or Gaza. I've very happy to read the story of this woman getting a job in Silicon Valley, and of the success of the people in Gaza.
- patall 6y ago
  My grandma was born in 1936 in the city of Poznan as ethnically german child with a polish passport. Her family owned a shop and house the shop was in. Then, the nazis occupied poland, and the family prospered shortly. But the father, who had been a polish soldier before, had to enlist in the german forces and fell on the eastern front. Then the SU conquered the entire area and my grandmas familty lost every thing they could not carry: the house, the shop, the grandparents house with farm land, etc. More people lost their lives, greatgrandma was most likely raped, etc. Grandma missed a year of shool and ended up 5-10 centimeters shorter than the relatives. Now, 70 years later, does she hate the polish, or the russians, for what happened? Of course not.
  - fortran77 6y ago
    But you haven't been "flagged" for telling your story. I get flagged for telling mine.
    - dang 6y ago
      I think you're getting flagged for personal attacks and slurs (e.g. "You're just an American who wants to hate someone"), which is quite different than telling your story. I totally get and appreciate why you have strong feelings on the topic. But we can't have comments breaking the rules like that here.
  - 2fc00c733a5519 6y ago
    But why should she ever hate Poles in the first place? Poland was occupied by the Germans and Russians, one after another.
reissbaker 6y ago
I agree with you about the injustice that Palestinians face, but I think you have been taught incorrectly about "the native population which Jewish immigrants displaced" in a way that rings of anti-Semitism (e.g. the alt-right's calls that "Jews will not replace us," etc). About half of Israel's Jewish population is "Mizrahi," which refers to Jews native to the Middle East, many of whom predate Arab colonization of the Middle East. I know this is a contentious topic in general and I don't think you're intentionally being anti-Semitic, nor do I think all criticism of Israel's treatment of Palestinians is anti-Semitic! But it's easy to also accidentally fall into anti-Semitism when criticizing Israel, since anti-Semitism is so endemic to Western culture, and I think you accidentally did here.
- core-questions 6y ago
  One does not so much "fall into it" so much as one is accused of it whenever one's opinion about political or military actions runs counter to Zionism.
  - reissbaker 6y ago
    I would love it if your response addressed the points in my comment, but it seems like you're deliberately ignoring them. Again, I agree that the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians is abhorrent. That's not an anti-Semitic opinion! Claiming that Jews are not native to the Middle East and are an attempt to replace Palestinians is factually wrong, though, and does rely on anti-Semitic tropes.
    - pkkim 6y ago
      Yes, Jews are native to the Middle East, specifically the area of Israel/Palestine. But why should that make Palestinians who lost their land feel any better? It's irrelevant.
      - reissbaker 6y ago
        It shouldn't, and it doesn't. I agree that it doesn't and that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is terrible. My point is we can have this discussion without also (incorrectly) relying on anti-Semitic tropes of Jewish replacement. (I am Jewish, but I do not support the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians.)

revnode 6y ago

> the native population which Jewish immigrants displaced This happens everywhere, at all times. People are constantly moving around. Yet you seem to be fixated on the Jews. Is there a reason for this fixation?

woah 6y ago
This is a thread on that part of the world. It’s insane that you would insinuate antisemitism because someone made a relevant comment about the region.
- revnode 6y ago
  Can you point me toward other threads about other parts of the world where a particular ethnicity is singled out in a negative light for immigrating? I'll take back everything I said if you can find ONE.
  - woah 6y ago
    Han Chinese in Xinjiang today? Anglo Americans immigrating to Western North America in the 1800's? Germany's failed attempt to immigrate to eastern Europe in the 1940's? All of these are rightfully singled out in a negative light.
    - revnode 6y ago
      Here is the link to today's discussion of what is happening in China: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253886 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26253886 There is not a single mention of Han Chinese immigration to Xinjiang, in either positive or negative light. The Jews who immigrated to Israel were fleeing persecution at home and you chose to attack them. That is shameful and you should be ashamed of yourself. All people have the right to live wherever they choose, whether they be Jews, Arabs, or any ethnicity. Singling people out based on their ethnicity ... well, that's just racist, isn't it?
  - core-questions 6y ago
    There's a vast difference between legitimate, legal, welcomed immigration and invasion sanctioned by foreign states that results in the creation of an occupied territory, but you already knew that.
    - marshmallow_12 6y ago
      colonies? (like, every single one of them, past and present)
      - core-questions 6y ago
        I mean, if you think that a land that is filled with 20th century cities and has a documented history of being highly populated for thousands of years is the same thing as a continent that is practically empty, I don't know what to tell you.
        marshmallow_12 6y ago
        South America had cities. (not 20th century, admittedly). The settlement of south africa involved murdering a large amount of natives... I'm not not sure what to tell you!
        core-questions 6y ago
        Wait, you said South America and South Africa. The former certainly had cities; the latter was mostly wasteland with some amount of nomadic peoples who couldn't stay in one place because living off the land in one place was impossible without agriculture. Vastly different situation. Either way, sounds like another case of wrongdoing that doesn't excuse anyone else's actions. What is my takeaway from this supposed to be? Murdering Palestinians with sniper rifles and lobbing bombs at them is OK because someone a hundred years ago elsewhere did something entirely unrelated that was evil? Or that colonialism is just generally OK overall and should be fine? Where's the nuance, man?

fortran77 6y ago

My Jewish family was kicked out of Gaza in 1929. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#Jewish_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1929_Palestine_riots#Jewish_co... You've probably never been to Israel or Gaza. I've very happy to read the story of this woman getting a job in Silicon Valley, and of the success of the people in Gaza.

patall 6y ago
My grandma was born in 1936 in the city of Poznan as ethnically german child with a polish passport. Her family owned a shop and house the shop was in. Then, the nazis occupied poland, and the family prospered shortly. But the father, who had been a polish soldier before, had to enlist in the german forces and fell on the eastern front. Then the SU conquered the entire area and my grandmas familty lost every thing they could not carry: the house, the shop, the grandparents house with farm land, etc. More people lost their lives, greatgrandma was most likely raped, etc. Grandma missed a year of shool and ended up 5-10 centimeters shorter than the relatives. Now, 70 years later, does she hate the polish, or the russians, for what happened? Of course not.
- fortran77 6y ago
  But you haven't been "flagged" for telling your story. I get flagged for telling mine.
  - dang 6y ago
    I think you're getting flagged for personal attacks and slurs (e.g. "You're just an American who wants to hate someone"), which is quite different than telling your story. I totally get and appreciate why you have strong feelings on the topic. But we can't have comments breaking the rules like that here.
- 2fc00c733a5519 6y ago
  But why should she ever hate Poles in the first place? Poland was occupied by the Germans and Russians, one after another.

reissbaker 6y ago

I agree with you about the injustice that Palestinians face, but I think you have been taught incorrectly about "the native population which Jewish immigrants displaced" in a way that rings of anti-Semitism (e.g. the alt-right's calls that "Jews will not replace us," etc). About half of Israel's Jewish population is "Mizrahi," which refers to Jews native to the Middle East, many of whom predate Arab colonization of the Middle East. I know this is a contentious topic in general and I don't think you're intentionally being anti-Semitic, nor do I think all criticism of Israel's treatment of Palestinians is anti-Semitic! But it's easy to also accidentally fall into anti-Semitism when criticizing Israel, since anti-Semitism is so endemic to Western culture, and I think you accidentally did here.

core-questions 6y ago
One does not so much "fall into it" so much as one is accused of it whenever one's opinion about political or military actions runs counter to Zionism.
- reissbaker 6y ago
  I would love it if your response addressed the points in my comment, but it seems like you're deliberately ignoring them. Again, I agree that the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians is abhorrent. That's not an anti-Semitic opinion! Claiming that Jews are not native to the Middle East and are an attempt to replace Palestinians is factually wrong, though, and does rely on anti-Semitic tropes.
  - pkkim 6y ago
    Yes, Jews are native to the Middle East, specifically the area of Israel/Palestine. But why should that make Palestinians who lost their land feel any better? It's irrelevant.
    - reissbaker 6y ago
      It shouldn't, and it doesn't. I agree that it doesn't and that Israel's treatment of Palestinians is terrible. My point is we can have this discussion without also (incorrectly) relying on anti-Semitic tropes of Jewish replacement. (I am Jewish, but I do not support the Israeli government's treatment of Palestinians.)