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Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - a

Good to see a stand being taken. Hopefully allows for more pressure put on China to be more humane. Also I think there is too much us vs China going around - another war would be terrible, and even without a war, negative consequences could arise. One world should be the dream we aspire for.

medium_burrito 6y ago
Finally peace in our time!
AnimalMuppet 6y ago
If we aspire to one world, and that one world is going to be persecuting minorities, who's going to stand up and tell the whole world that it's doing it wrong?
- wcarss 6y ago
  Not snark: in the ideal case, that would be the people.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
federona 6y ago
There is no way to avoid another Cold War. A hot war is impossible. I am glad that the Soviet Union ceased to exist. I will be glad with China being contained. I will also be glad in a multi-lateral world where America does not go unchecked and can be held up by others to its ideals.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  A hot war is most certainly not impossible. Just because nuclear weapons might be off the table doesn't mean conventional bombs aren't. And frankly, even nuclear weapons might not be off the table fully. Desperation leads people to do strange things. China really is a sort of "early 1900s Germany" stage, which is rather frightening.
  - federona 6y ago
    China is in some ways like pre-WWI Germany in that it does not have an empire and everyone else does so it wants one to. But Chinese are not starving due to sanctions and have not lost a war, etc. Chinese are doing well. China is just flexing its muscle because it can. That is all. Not because it needs to or that it's people are psychologically in fascism mode.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      What you wrote demonstrates a superficial understanding. > But Chinese are not starving due to sanctions They are starving due to natural (floods and locusts) and manmade (dams) disasters. Pre-corona, China imported 30% of its food, and today it's over 50%. Mining their few harbors would starve half of their population to death in 6 months. China has basically no welfare programs for non-CCP citizens. If Trump's policies are continued by Biden, China will also suffer financially and technology-wise. Trump's policies would have crumbled China in 4-8 years. > Not because it needs to or that it's people are psychologically in fascism mode. The CCP has to flex because of ideology. It has been in a quiet war with the US since Mao in the 1950's, and it needs to usurp and destroy the US to maintain absolute hold on power - there cannot be an alternative for people to compare to the CCP in their minds. That means an invasion of Taiwan ASAP and war with the US after that (China has more military ships now than the US, which is a certain sign of preparation for war.)
    - dmix 6y ago
      Bingo, comfortable upwardly mobile populations aren’t too friendly to any sort of serious war. Let alone total A majority in an agitated state that is being repressed or prodded (realistically or not) by other power blocs is what is worrying. Even ideological extremism most just happens locally. Like the Russian socialist Revolutions and countless jihads.
  - Dirlewanger 6y ago
    There's also the whole frightening frame of thought that as people who were alive to see nuclear detonations being performed in the 50s/60s continue to die off, as a society we're going to slowly forget what makes nuclear weapons so awesome (in the original definition of the word), and the willpower around their restraint will slowly be eroded away until it's too late.
- csomar 6y ago
  A hot war is very likely. Why do you think everyone is building armies, weapons and trying to get nuclear toys (Iran). Just look up what triggered world war I and II.
- fullshark 6y ago
  Cold War already started years ago, the leadership in the west was just was too naive and arrogant to see it.
- Mitzi 6y ago
  This might be a bit naive but doesn't a cold war by definition imply the possibility of it getting hot? Or in other words: Isn't a cold war that is impossible to get hot just peace?
jonathannat 6y ago
China poses several of the biggest threats to humanity - infectious disease: China has released infectious disease time after time: bird flu, SARS, covid that has killed millions around the world - climate change: China, leader in coal production by large amount, ramping up even more coal factories in 2020 https://thecoalhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Coal-Production.jpeg https://thecoalhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Coal-Produ... - world war: on its way to Hitler Germany's nationalistic dictatorship. with concentration camps for its minority, threatened invasion to Taiwan, an independent democratic country, conflicts and threats with most democratic countries around the world, man-made islands, capacity to ramp up military production. We need to stop contributing cash to China. Stop buying from China. Apple is moving away from China fast. Biden just signed an order for China-free technology supply chain. Factories are moving faster out of China.
- stanislavb 6y ago
  Totally! I’ve been avoiding “Made in China” products for the last 3 years. I’m always looking for alternatives. Yet, there are cases when there aren’t ... but still, in most of the time there are.
- neolog 6y ago
  If you buy from another country, that country will need to burn fuel to make your products.
  - jonathannat 6y ago
    not all countries run mostly on coal. before you say "but then we won't have enough production" good, maybe we should create less things based on coal. we have item shortages now, and the world hasn't ended.
- inglor_cz 6y ago
  One of our dirty secrets is that we in the West improved our own local environment by shipping off all the polluting industries to somewhere else, preferably overseas. While all of your points are valid and I believe we should stop being deferential to China (including on topics like Taiwan), their pollution is our pollution, too, at least partly so.
president 6y ago
The war has been waged for decades already and the west has already lost. This was a war fought with information, influence, and economic warfare. When you think about all the things you need to secure and defend one's country (e.g. PPE, pharmaceuticals, rare-earth minerals, manufacturing supply chains, patriotism, jobs, economic growth, geopolitical soft/hard power), you realize that China has all these things and America has none and is stuck battling itself over nonsense domestic issues.
Dirlewanger 6y ago
We're in the beginnings of a new Cold War with China, and we're not winning.

medium_burrito 6y ago

Finally peace in our time!

AnimalMuppet 6y ago

If we aspire to one world, and that one world is going to be persecuting minorities, who's going to stand up and tell the whole world that it's doing it wrong?

wcarss 6y ago
Not snark: in the ideal case, that would be the people.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

federona 6y ago

There is no way to avoid another Cold War. A hot war is impossible. I am glad that the Soviet Union ceased to exist. I will be glad with China being contained. I will also be glad in a multi-lateral world where America does not go unchecked and can be held up by others to its ideals.

cbozeman 6y ago
A hot war is most certainly not impossible. Just because nuclear weapons might be off the table doesn't mean conventional bombs aren't. And frankly, even nuclear weapons might not be off the table fully. Desperation leads people to do strange things. China really is a sort of "early 1900s Germany" stage, which is rather frightening.
- federona 6y ago
  China is in some ways like pre-WWI Germany in that it does not have an empire and everyone else does so it wants one to. But Chinese are not starving due to sanctions and have not lost a war, etc. Chinese are doing well. China is just flexing its muscle because it can. That is all. Not because it needs to or that it's people are psychologically in fascism mode.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    What you wrote demonstrates a superficial understanding. > But Chinese are not starving due to sanctions They are starving due to natural (floods and locusts) and manmade (dams) disasters. Pre-corona, China imported 30% of its food, and today it's over 50%. Mining their few harbors would starve half of their population to death in 6 months. China has basically no welfare programs for non-CCP citizens. If Trump's policies are continued by Biden, China will also suffer financially and technology-wise. Trump's policies would have crumbled China in 4-8 years. > Not because it needs to or that it's people are psychologically in fascism mode. The CCP has to flex because of ideology. It has been in a quiet war with the US since Mao in the 1950's, and it needs to usurp and destroy the US to maintain absolute hold on power - there cannot be an alternative for people to compare to the CCP in their minds. That means an invasion of Taiwan ASAP and war with the US after that (China has more military ships now than the US, which is a certain sign of preparation for war.)
  - dmix 6y ago
    Bingo, comfortable upwardly mobile populations aren’t too friendly to any sort of serious war. Let alone total A majority in an agitated state that is being repressed or prodded (realistically or not) by other power blocs is what is worrying. Even ideological extremism most just happens locally. Like the Russian socialist Revolutions and countless jihads.
- Dirlewanger 6y ago
  There's also the whole frightening frame of thought that as people who were alive to see nuclear detonations being performed in the 50s/60s continue to die off, as a society we're going to slowly forget what makes nuclear weapons so awesome (in the original definition of the word), and the willpower around their restraint will slowly be eroded away until it's too late.
csomar 6y ago
A hot war is very likely. Why do you think everyone is building armies, weapons and trying to get nuclear toys (Iran). Just look up what triggered world war I and II.
fullshark 6y ago
Cold War already started years ago, the leadership in the west was just was too naive and arrogant to see it.
Mitzi 6y ago
This might be a bit naive but doesn't a cold war by definition imply the possibility of it getting hot? Or in other words: Isn't a cold war that is impossible to get hot just peace?

jonathannat 6y ago

China poses several of the biggest threats to humanity - infectious disease: China has released infectious disease time after time: bird flu, SARS, covid that has killed millions around the world - climate change: China, leader in coal production by large amount, ramping up even more coal factories in 2020 https://thecoalhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Coal-Production.jpeg https://thecoalhub.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Coal-Produ... - world war: on its way to Hitler Germany's nationalistic dictatorship. with concentration camps for its minority, threatened invasion to Taiwan, an independent democratic country, conflicts and threats with most democratic countries around the world, man-made islands, capacity to ramp up military production. We need to stop contributing cash to China. Stop buying from China. Apple is moving away from China fast. Biden just signed an order for China-free technology supply chain. Factories are moving faster out of China.

stanislavb 6y ago
Totally! I’ve been avoiding “Made in China” products for the last 3 years. I’m always looking for alternatives. Yet, there are cases when there aren’t ... but still, in most of the time there are.
neolog 6y ago
If you buy from another country, that country will need to burn fuel to make your products.
- jonathannat 6y ago
  not all countries run mostly on coal. before you say "but then we won't have enough production" good, maybe we should create less things based on coal. we have item shortages now, and the world hasn't ended.
inglor_cz 6y ago
One of our dirty secrets is that we in the West improved our own local environment by shipping off all the polluting industries to somewhere else, preferably overseas. While all of your points are valid and I believe we should stop being deferential to China (including on topics like Taiwan), their pollution is our pollution, too, at least partly so.

president 6y ago

The war has been waged for decades already and the west has already lost. This was a war fought with information, influence, and economic warfare. When you think about all the things you need to secure and defend one's country (e.g. PPE, pharmaceuticals, rare-earth minerals, manufacturing supply chains, patriotism, jobs, economic growth, geopolitical soft/hard power), you realize that China has all these things and America has none and is stuck battling itself over nonsense domestic issues.

Dirlewanger 6y ago

We're in the beginnings of a new Cold War with China, and we're not winning.