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I agree and I really dislike the undercurrent of fear that's present in a lot of parenting advice. The message (implicitly or explicitly) tends to be "do it thi

I agree and I really dislike the undercurrent of fear that's present in a lot of parenting advice. The message (implicitly or explicitly) tends to be "do it this way or you'll damage your kids." But the truth is we're never going to be perfect parents, we have no guarantees over how our kids turn out, and there are a wide range of approaches that will lead to good outcomes. I like to do research to discover options I might not have come up with on my own, but I always try to pay attention to those subtle messages of fear so they don't influence my decisions too much.

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and each parent is entitled to damage their kids ( within reasons prescribed by the society ). My line clearly starts with food and I can already see I people won't like me in school, PTA and like meetings. Joy.
- lqet 6y ago
  > She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. Relax. I occasionally ate fast food when I was 4, and I was definitely aware of the existence of McDonalds. I never had a weight problem in my life, and today I eat fast food maybe once every 3 months or so.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    I feel like we're probably not the only kids who ate Happy Meals. Starbucks might be a different type of menu to navigate, but they do have child-appropriate items. https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2121691/single https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2121691/single
  - silicon2401 6y ago
    That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, it is estimated that around 40% of Americans are considered obese, and 18% are considered severely obese as of 2019. Severe obesity is defined as a BMI over 35 in the study. Their projections say that about half of the US population (48.9%) will be considered obese and nearly 1 in 4 (24.2%) will be considered severely obese by the year 2030.[14][15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Americans aren't fat because of Starbucks and McDonalds. Those things are just food. Americans are fat because they eat too many calories and don't get enough exercise: https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat-increase-2016-07#americans-are-consuming-far-more-calories-each-day-than-is-recommended-daily-intake-should-be-around-2000-calories-for-women-and-2500-for-men-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat... At age 2-3, my parents fed me traditional Bangladeshi meals of chicken or beef curry stewed in heavy amounts of canola oil. My 2 year old, meanwhile, lives on McDonald's chicken nuggets. There's no way the former is better for you than the latter.
      - silicon2401 6y ago
        That traditional bangladeshi meal doesn't sound like it's loaded with sugar like a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds, which is one distinct difference. another major difference is that the traditional bangladeshi meal sounds full of fiber and nutrients, which is also very different from a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds food. If you're a robot with 100% dietary discipline, yes you can maintain the same weight whether you're eating purely lettuce, potato chips, or curry. But the average human will have a harder time sticking to their proper calories if they subsist on high-sugar, low-fiber, low-nutrient fast food compared to bangladeshi curry. I'm not talking about theory, I'm talking about real-life humans, and as evidence for my statement you can read the wikipedia page I linked containing data about the prevalence of overweightness and obesity in the US.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I accept I may be over-reacting a little, but in that particular case occasionally means a weekly happy meal. The kid in question is already yelling "Happy Meal day" on Friday.
    - kube-system 6y ago
      Is that supposed to be egregious? I liked McDonalds as a kid too. You get a toy, after all. This is hardly going to harm a child: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnuggets-happy-meal.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnu...
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
        I am genuinely surprised that this part of the equation is not more troubling to more parents. Yes, the toy is is part of the draw. The question is whether this is a good thing and/or a good habit. I think it is not.
        kube-system 6y ago
        I think that depends more on the parent than it does the restaurant. It is possible to fit fast food in to a healthy diet, just like it's also possible to eat fruits and vegetables in an unhealthy way[0]. A weekly treat sounds squarely within the realm of moderation to me... that's what, 5% of a weekly diet? 0: https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malnourished-toddler-weighed-17-lbs-time-death-family-vegan-sheila-oleary-ryan-oleary-cape-coral/2577087001/ https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malno...
        A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
        It is a reasonable argument assuming it is true for the rest of the diet. Thank you for that. I am still not entirely convinced, but I all of a sudden I feel a little less adamant in my position.
        sgtnoodle 6y ago
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- rayiner 6y ago
  What's wrong with Starbucks and McDonalds? Kids drink glasses of milk. An iced latte is literally just a glass of milk with espresso in it. As to McDonalds--I'm not convinced it's any worse than the stuff I ate at that age in Bangladesh (curries heavy with oil, lots of carbs).
  - xyzzyz 6y ago
    Starbucks latte is okay, calories wise. Frappuccino, not so much, with its quadruple calories bill.
  - pineaux 6y ago
    Are you saying that there is no substantial difference between mcdonald's and curries? Same kind of fat? Same kind of carbs? Same amount of fibers? Same amount of minerals and vitamins? Sounds a bit like you are trying to provoke a discussion about this.
  - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
    I personally do not subscribe to the idea that giving a child ( in this case -- a 4 year old ) espresso is acceptable. To answer your argument about Bangladesh food. Assuming McD is not worse ( I have no real data to say either way ),I am not sure it is a good argument either. You, typically, want your kids to do better so if McD is that upgrade, then I really cannot fault you for this. We all approach this with resources at our disposal.
    - rayiner 6y ago
      Are you suggesting that whatever weird food your kids eat is an "upgrade" compared to the normal diet of Bangladeshis?
      - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
        No. As previously mentioned, I don't know enough about traditional foods there to make a judgment one way on the other. I am actually arguing that what my kids eat is an "upgrade" over McD and I assumed that if you think McD is no worse than diet of Bangladeshis then it is either the same or better since, possibly wrongly, I assume that parents universally want to improve their kids life. Just to make more interesting. In the old country, the diet is heavy in fats of all kinds ( partially due to history of the location and, well, cold weather ). Despite its flaws, I would argue its still better than McD on most days.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- sgtnoodle 6y ago
  I'm curious to know where your line will have moved to once your baby is a toddler and you've been sleep deprived for an extended period of time. Please follow up in two years! Recently, a bunch of coworkers with young children ended up together in a social video call, and most of the conversation was about how blurry that line becomes over time. One guy with elementary school aged daughters was calling from his back porch, in the cold and dark, with the lights off, just to have some peace.
- hycaria 6y ago
  Thank you for your comment. I feel the same way about food and I'm rather shocked at the response you get. And I didn't eat fast food as a kid myself, and that didn't make it attractive to me. Although we went to McDonalds every wednesday after going to the library to get a fresh orange juice.

A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago

There is damage and there is damage. Some can really change kids trajectory. Some become a funny anecdote for the future. I am a newly minted parent and we had a visitation from a parent, who now has a 4 year old. She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. There may not be wrong way to parent exactly and each parent is entitled to damage their kids ( within reasons prescribed by the society ). My line clearly starts with food and I can already see I people won't like me in school, PTA and like meetings. Joy.

lqet 6y ago
> She already introduced him to Starbucks and McDonalds. Now I have to ensure that she stays way way down on the list of people we would consider babysitting. Relax. I occasionally ate fast food when I was 4, and I was definitely aware of the existence of McDonalds. I never had a weight problem in my life, and today I eat fast food maybe once every 3 months or so.
- kube-system 6y ago
  I feel like we're probably not the only kids who ate Happy Meals. Starbucks might be a different type of menu to navigate, but they do have child-appropriate items. https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2121691/single https://www.starbucks.com/menu/product/2121691/single
- silicon2401 6y ago
  That's a condescending and unfounded response. Some people can take heroin and not have issues, but that doesn't make heroin safe by any means. You're in a small minority of Americans and not representative of the average person. > The organization estimates that 3/4 of the American population will likely be overweight or obese by 2020.[13] According to research done by the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, it is estimated that around 40% of Americans are considered obese, and 18% are considered severely obese as of 2019. Severe obesity is defined as a BMI over 35 in the study. Their projections say that about half of the US population (48.9%) will be considered obese and nearly 1 in 4 (24.2%) will be considered severely obese by the year 2030.[14][15] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obesity_in_the_United_States
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Americans aren't fat because of Starbucks and McDonalds. Those things are just food. Americans are fat because they eat too many calories and don't get enough exercise: https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat-increase-2016-07#americans-are-consuming-far-more-calories-each-day-than-is-recommended-daily-intake-should-be-around-2000-calories-for-women-and-2500-for-men-1 https://www.businessinsider.com/daily-calories-americans-eat... At age 2-3, my parents fed me traditional Bangladeshi meals of chicken or beef curry stewed in heavy amounts of canola oil. My 2 year old, meanwhile, lives on McDonald's chicken nuggets. There's no way the former is better for you than the latter.
    - silicon2401 6y ago
      That traditional bangladeshi meal doesn't sound like it's loaded with sugar like a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds, which is one distinct difference. another major difference is that the traditional bangladeshi meal sounds full of fiber and nutrients, which is also very different from a lot of starbucks and mcdonalds food. If you're a robot with 100% dietary discipline, yes you can maintain the same weight whether you're eating purely lettuce, potato chips, or curry. But the average human will have a harder time sticking to their proper calories if they subsist on high-sugar, low-fiber, low-nutrient fast food compared to bangladeshi curry. I'm not talking about theory, I'm talking about real-life humans, and as evidence for my statement you can read the wikipedia page I linked containing data about the prevalence of overweightness and obesity in the US.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I accept I may be over-reacting a little, but in that particular case occasionally means a weekly happy meal. The kid in question is already yelling "Happy Meal day" on Friday.
  - kube-system 6y ago
    Is that supposed to be egregious? I liked McDonalds as a kid too. You get a toy, after all. This is hardly going to harm a child: https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnuggets-happy-meal.html https://www.mcdonalds.com/us/en-us/meal/4-piece-chicken-mcnu...
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
      I am genuinely surprised that this part of the equation is not more troubling to more parents. Yes, the toy is is part of the draw. The question is whether this is a good thing and/or a good habit. I think it is not.
      - kube-system 6y ago
        I think that depends more on the parent than it does the restaurant. It is possible to fit fast food in to a healthy diet, just like it's also possible to eat fruits and vegetables in an unhealthy way[0]. A weekly treat sounds squarely within the realm of moderation to me... that's what, 5% of a weekly diet? 0: https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malnourished-toddler-weighed-17-lbs-time-death-family-vegan-sheila-oleary-ryan-oleary-cape-coral/2577087001/ https://www.news-press.com/story/news/crime/2019/11/12/malno...
        A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
        It is a reasonable argument assuming it is true for the rest of the diet. Thank you for that. I am still not entirely convinced, but I all of a sudden I feel a little less adamant in my position.
      - sgtnoodle 6y ago
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
rayiner 6y ago
What's wrong with Starbucks and McDonalds? Kids drink glasses of milk. An iced latte is literally just a glass of milk with espresso in it. As to McDonalds--I'm not convinced it's any worse than the stuff I ate at that age in Bangladesh (curries heavy with oil, lots of carbs).
- xyzzyz 6y ago
  Starbucks latte is okay, calories wise. Frappuccino, not so much, with its quadruple calories bill.
- pineaux 6y ago
  Are you saying that there is no substantial difference between mcdonald's and curries? Same kind of fat? Same kind of carbs? Same amount of fibers? Same amount of minerals and vitamins? Sounds a bit like you are trying to provoke a discussion about this.
- A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
  I personally do not subscribe to the idea that giving a child ( in this case -- a 4 year old ) espresso is acceptable. To answer your argument about Bangladesh food. Assuming McD is not worse ( I have no real data to say either way ),I am not sure it is a good argument either. You, typically, want your kids to do better so if McD is that upgrade, then I really cannot fault you for this. We all approach this with resources at our disposal.
  - rayiner 6y ago
    Are you suggesting that whatever weird food your kids eat is an "upgrade" compared to the normal diet of Bangladeshis?
    - A4ET8a8uTh0 6y ago
      No. As previously mentioned, I don't know enough about traditional foods there to make a judgment one way on the other. I am actually arguing that what my kids eat is an "upgrade" over McD and I assumed that if you think McD is no worse than diet of Bangladeshis then it is either the same or better since, possibly wrongly, I assume that parents universally want to improve their kids life. Just to make more interesting. In the old country, the diet is heavy in fats of all kinds ( partially due to history of the location and, well, cold weather ). Despite its flaws, I would argue its still better than McD on most days.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
sgtnoodle 6y ago
I'm curious to know where your line will have moved to once your baby is a toddler and you've been sleep deprived for an extended period of time. Please follow up in two years! Recently, a bunch of coworkers with young children ended up together in a social video call, and most of the conversation was about how blurry that line becomes over time. One guy with elementary school aged daughters was calling from his back porch, in the cold and dark, with the lights off, just to have some peace.
hycaria 6y ago
Thank you for your comment. I feel the same way about food and I'm rather shocked at the response you get. And I didn't eat fast food as a kid myself, and that didn't make it attractive to me. Although we went to McDonalds every wednesday after going to the library to get a fresh orange juice.