5 ms·

One problem is when an event like this happened in New Zealand, other retailers didn't accept new customers at this time. I mean, would you accept new customers

One problem is when an event like this happened in New Zealand, other retailers didn't accept new customers at this time. I mean, would you accept new customers paying 20 cents a kWh when the market rate is 500 cents a kWh?

brianwawok 6y ago
And that is the age old problem. People sign into a "deal" contract to save $5 now, but with a 1/1000 chance of someday losing $1000. And then they hit the spike and what happens? a) Extra charge is forgiven? b) Someone else picks up the tab? c) They are stuck paying it? And how do you deal with this big picture? a) Require better legal language in the contracts to sign up for this b) Ban these kind of contracts, because the user isn't "smart" enough to know how they work Similar things happen in a floodplain where no one will issue flood insurance. It's mostly fine, until it isn't.
- WaylonKenning 6y ago
  That's where I think things like Tesla's Powerwall becomes so handy. Imagine 95 kWh just sitting there on your wall. Or in your Model-S. When there's an adverse power event, use your battery. Or, sell it back to the grid if there's money to be made. Having a massive virtual peaker plant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant) is a neat idea. Telsa, another new business idea for you!
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    What sucks is powerwall cost $7.5k for 6.5 kWh of storage. A decent sized house is going to need 2-4 to handle a reasonable outage, and if you want to be able to power an AC. My Model Y has a 75 kWh of battery just sitting in my garage, and S/X owners have 100 kWh (maybe 90 after refresh?). Really wish Teslas could use a vehicle to grid to somehow tie into a homebase powerwall for this kind of situation. My understanding is there is no inbuilt way to get more than what is needed to charge the 12V out of a Tesla...
- AtlasBarfed 6y ago
  Well, the banks do this as a part of business, knowing the US will bail them out when their insider trading house of cards crash down. Flood insurance for a house purchase is very different from a afterthought utility bill that, really, you have no "choice" on procuring.
  - brianwawok 6y ago
    Wait, but you did have a choice in picking this utility bill. Your choice was: a) (default choice): Use as much power you as you want, 12c a kWh, it never changes. b) (other supplier choice): Pay market rate! Currently only 9c a kWh, save 3c per kWh! (Until this event, when it went to $1000 a kWh). Consumer opted into B to save some cash, but got hit with the downside of their bet.
    - Spooky23 6y ago
      ...and somehow everyone is surprised that consumers do a bad job at assessing risk. It’s an unconscionable business model with no guardrails. Commercial users don’t sign up for rates like that without breakers or hedges.
      - brianwawok 6y ago
        And commercial users tend to be more sophisticated. So then we just ban users from such programs? (I don't know the answer, but this ends up down a pretty strict path of not letting you hurt yourself).
TulliusCicero 6y ago
In this case the regulated/government-run provider was an option I think.

brianwawok 6y ago

And that is the age old problem. People sign into a "deal" contract to save $5 now, but with a 1/1000 chance of someday losing $1000. And then they hit the spike and what happens? a) Extra charge is forgiven? b) Someone else picks up the tab? c) They are stuck paying it? And how do you deal with this big picture? a) Require better legal language in the contracts to sign up for this b) Ban these kind of contracts, because the user isn't "smart" enough to know how they work Similar things happen in a floodplain where no one will issue flood insurance. It's mostly fine, until it isn't.

WaylonKenning 6y ago
That's where I think things like Tesla's Powerwall becomes so handy. Imagine 95 kWh just sitting there on your wall. Or in your Model-S. When there's an adverse power event, use your battery. Or, sell it back to the grid if there's money to be made. Having a massive virtual peaker plant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peaking_power_plant) is a neat idea. Telsa, another new business idea for you!
- brianwawok 6y ago
  What sucks is powerwall cost $7.5k for 6.5 kWh of storage. A decent sized house is going to need 2-4 to handle a reasonable outage, and if you want to be able to power an AC. My Model Y has a 75 kWh of battery just sitting in my garage, and S/X owners have 100 kWh (maybe 90 after refresh?). Really wish Teslas could use a vehicle to grid to somehow tie into a homebase powerwall for this kind of situation. My understanding is there is no inbuilt way to get more than what is needed to charge the 12V out of a Tesla...
AtlasBarfed 6y ago
Well, the banks do this as a part of business, knowing the US will bail them out when their insider trading house of cards crash down. Flood insurance for a house purchase is very different from a afterthought utility bill that, really, you have no "choice" on procuring.
- brianwawok 6y ago
  Wait, but you did have a choice in picking this utility bill. Your choice was: a) (default choice): Use as much power you as you want, 12c a kWh, it never changes. b) (other supplier choice): Pay market rate! Currently only 9c a kWh, save 3c per kWh! (Until this event, when it went to $1000 a kWh). Consumer opted into B to save some cash, but got hit with the downside of their bet.
  - Spooky23 6y ago
    ...and somehow everyone is surprised that consumers do a bad job at assessing risk. It’s an unconscionable business model with no guardrails. Commercial users don’t sign up for rates like that without breakers or hedges.
    - brianwawok 6y ago
      And commercial users tend to be more sophisticated. So then we just ban users from such programs? (I don't know the answer, but this ends up down a pretty strict path of not letting you hurt yourself).

TulliusCicero 6y ago

In this case the regulated/government-run provider was an option I think.