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> in Puerto Rico, the power company there is run by the government > in Norway (...) I could shop around for the best power company

• torwayburger 6y ago
  Statnett, a state owned entity operated by the energy ministry, runs the Norwegian grid.
  • kgwgk 6y ago
    I understand that. But the context of this thread was > there shouldn't be a profit motive attached to basic services like electricity
    • torwayburger 6y ago
      I replied to (a comment) and tried to contrast how a state owned power grid can still have profit models attached and function both technically and for it's intended customers.
      • kgwgk 6y ago
        Interestingly, ERCOT is a non-profit. (Like most hospitals in the US, by the way, coming back to the original "There shouldn't be a profit motive attached to basic services like electricity, policing (private prisons), or medicine" comment.)
        • torwayburger 6y ago
          My understanding is that they're registered as a charitable organization, not a non-profit. These terms are often used interchangeably, but from a tax and earnings perspective they mean different things. This is often further confused with not-for-profit organizations, which is yet another thing.
          • kgwgk 6y ago
            501(c)(4)
            • torwayburger 6y ago
              Right, not the same as 501(c)(3), was my point exactly.
              • kgwgk 6y ago
                Who says 501(c)(4) are not non-profits? The 501(c)(3) are the charitable ones, by the way.
                • torwayburger 6y ago
                  No. My point was that 501(c)(3) and 501(c)(4) are not the same thing. The important point to note in this case is: "501(c)(4) organizations may engage in unlimited lobbying in furtherance of their social welfare purposes." "The more generous limit of non-exempt activity permissible to a 501(c)(4) explains why a 501(c)(4) organization may engage in substantial amounts of political campaign intervention activities even though the regulations make clear that such activities do not constitute the promotion of social welfare." It's less pedantic and more: you can call a fork a spoon all you want, until you have to eat soup with it.
                  • kgwgk 6y ago
                    Ok, so when I said “ERCOT is a non-profit” and you replied “they're registered as a charitable organization, not a non-profit” you really didn’t mean that it was not a non-profit and your point was that it’s a 501(c)(4) non-profit which is not the same thing as a 501(c)(3) non-profit. And a spoon is not the same thing as a fork. We agree on both counts. Edit: or maybe you were referring to hospitals? In that case you may be right and I was using the term loosely when I said “most”. There are different kinds of hospitals. My later comments were about ERCOT, not hospitals.
              • 6y ago
• piva00 6y ago
  The grid is a common good. It's the same for the grid in Sweden (Svenska kraftnät), also how optic fiber is deployed here in Stockholm, the costly infrastructure was developed and is maintained by the government, private ISPs can lease out capacity but aren't the ones maintaining it. That avoided the costly deployment of multiple similar infrastructure per provider like you see in the US, where corporations cornered some markets and made the barrier of entry so costly that they became de facto monopolies.
  • kgwgk 6y ago
    I understand that. But the context of this thread was > there shouldn't be a profit motive attached to basic services like electricity
    • piva00 6y ago
      Ah, now I get that. Adding my two cents on this discussion: if there is a profit motive for any modern basic human need (food, shelter, energy, communications, healthcare) it should be very well regulated to protect society. It may sound paternalistic when seen with a neo-liberal eye to it but I have developed a firm belief that neo-liberalism has utterly failed as a societal experiment to move us forward.