5 ms·

They should be imprisoned as well. The Earth does not belong to us, rather we belong to the Earth. The Earth is more important than we are, we should put the E

They should be imprisoned as well. The Earth does not belong to us, rather we belong to the Earth. The Earth is more important than we are, we should put the Earth's needs ahead of our own needs. We must stand up for the rights of the Earth, or else human rights will be impossible to maintain. Anyone sacrificing the Earth for profit is committing genocide as well as ecocide.

adrianN 6y ago
For that you need support from a large majority of the general populace, who unfortunately are just fine with the status quo (or the politicians would need to act differently to get reelected).
- sep_field 6y ago
  The majority of the world's populace is scared of climate change. There's more than enough of us to eliminate the rich if we work together. Countries are an outmoded and unsustainable concept that only serve to artificially empower the rich. Global Ecosocialism is the only way to avert climate catastrophe. The way to eliminate the rich is for us to band together and strip them of their assets, then they will no longer be rich.
  - cnity 6y ago
    If anything will save us it will be technology, not going around trying to institute a global genocide campaign against the rich.
    - sep_field 6y ago
      I updated my comment to clarify that eliminating the rich does not mean killing them. We must become a planet of equals, working together to be sustainable. Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Technology will not save us, only drastically reducing our consumption and pollution will.
      - slibhb 6y ago
        > Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Anyone working against the state, against the current of history, has forfeit his right to exist. This is justified by the beacon on the hill, which is communism ("a planet of equals"). Sounds familiar. On some level I admire you because you're really just extending commonly held ideas to their logical conclusion. That's something most people don't have the guts to do. But the lesson here is that we absolutely cannot extend these "big ideas" as you've done. We have to exist in an indeterminate state and avoid totalizing our worldviews. In other words, you should find a way to advocate for measures to deal with climate change without sounding like a psychopath.
        sep_field 6y ago
        a psychopath would be calling for executions of these people, not simply stripping their assets and throwing them in prison. We only have about 10-15 years until complete climate collapse. The time for advocating gentle measures was 50 years ago. Which was done, and ignored by the ruling classes. Now we only have time for drastic measures: An end to countries, and end to capitalism. Global Ecosocialist cooperation of the working classes, taking the means of production by force and ensuring only sustainable processes are continued.
        slibhb 6y ago
        There is no evidence that socialism (the variety that actually exists in the real world and not in your head) is any more ecologically friendly than capitalism. I think it's deeply sad that you haven't learned the lessons of the 20th century. "Gentle measures" are the only way to make progress, we can't sever our connection to the past, drastic measures of the kind you're proposing have always resulted in the vivisection of actual human communities based on a quasi-religious understanding of what's going to happen in the future.
        sep_field 6y ago
        The Earth does not belong to us, rather we belong to the Earth. The Earth is more important than we are, we should put the Earth's needs ahead of our own needs. We must stand up for the rights of the Earth, or else human rights will be impossible to maintain. Ecosocialism has never been tried, and it is now long past time. Stalin and Mao certainly didn't even try. And even if human communities are vivisected, so what? The Earth is more important. The Earth is very much my religion and I stand by Her.
burnthrow 6y ago
This user's views on criminal justice change like the weather. > sep_field 4 hours ago [–] > Fines and jail time would be a start at correcting policy. Especially jail time for cops who refuse to wear masks. > sep_field 2 hours ago [–] > yeah I think jail is best reserved for cops and politicians. Perhaps it's best to not engage in further discussion with an obvious troll account.
- sep_field 6y ago
  that is in terms of the pandemic and masks. this is a different discussion with broader goals. Calling me a troll is a personal attack designed to discredit me. I have very different ideas and motivations than you do, but I am a true believer, not a troll.
  - burnthrow 6y ago
    Don't play coy, the sole goal of your "discussion" and account is to provoke and upset people.
    - sep_field 6y ago
      The purpose of my discussion is to educate and inspire a global Ecosocialist revolution. The purpose of my account in general is to have interesting discussions. I have some pretty extremist views and I'm quite vocal about them in some discussions, that doesn't make me a troll. Now, do you have anything constructive to say or are you just going to continue personal attacks?
      - Igelau 6y ago
        I think you're being called a troll because you're proposing incarceration as a solution, and that's a fundamentally antiscientific position. Inconsistency + agression usually passes the duck test for a troll.
        sep_field 6y ago

adrianN 6y ago

For that you need support from a large majority of the general populace, who unfortunately are just fine with the status quo (or the politicians would need to act differently to get reelected).

sep_field 6y ago
The majority of the world's populace is scared of climate change. There's more than enough of us to eliminate the rich if we work together. Countries are an outmoded and unsustainable concept that only serve to artificially empower the rich. Global Ecosocialism is the only way to avert climate catastrophe. The way to eliminate the rich is for us to band together and strip them of their assets, then they will no longer be rich.
- cnity 6y ago
  If anything will save us it will be technology, not going around trying to institute a global genocide campaign against the rich.
  - sep_field 6y ago
    I updated my comment to clarify that eliminating the rich does not mean killing them. We must become a planet of equals, working together to be sustainable. Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Technology will not save us, only drastically reducing our consumption and pollution will.
    - slibhb 6y ago
      > Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Anyone working against the state, against the current of history, has forfeit his right to exist. This is justified by the beacon on the hill, which is communism ("a planet of equals"). Sounds familiar. On some level I admire you because you're really just extending commonly held ideas to their logical conclusion. That's something most people don't have the guts to do. But the lesson here is that we absolutely cannot extend these "big ideas" as you've done. We have to exist in an indeterminate state and avoid totalizing our worldviews. In other words, you should find a way to advocate for measures to deal with climate change without sounding like a psychopath.
      - sep_field 6y ago
        a psychopath would be calling for executions of these people, not simply stripping their assets and throwing them in prison. We only have about 10-15 years until complete climate collapse. The time for advocating gentle measures was 50 years ago. Which was done, and ignored by the ruling classes. Now we only have time for drastic measures: An end to countries, and end to capitalism. Global Ecosocialist cooperation of the working classes, taking the means of production by force and ensuring only sustainable processes are continued.
        slibhb 6y ago
        There is no evidence that socialism (the variety that actually exists in the real world and not in your head) is any more ecologically friendly than capitalism. I think it's deeply sad that you haven't learned the lessons of the 20th century. "Gentle measures" are the only way to make progress, we can't sever our connection to the past, drastic measures of the kind you're proposing have always resulted in the vivisection of actual human communities based on a quasi-religious understanding of what's going to happen in the future.
        sep_field 6y ago
        The Earth does not belong to us, rather we belong to the Earth. The Earth is more important than we are, we should put the Earth's needs ahead of our own needs. We must stand up for the rights of the Earth, or else human rights will be impossible to maintain. Ecosocialism has never been tried, and it is now long past time. Stalin and Mao certainly didn't even try. And even if human communities are vivisected, so what? The Earth is more important. The Earth is very much my religion and I stand by Her.

burnthrow 6y ago

This user's views on criminal justice change like the weather. > sep_field 4 hours ago [–] > Fines and jail time would be a start at correcting policy. Especially jail time for cops who refuse to wear masks. > sep_field 2 hours ago [–] > yeah I think jail is best reserved for cops and politicians. Perhaps it's best to not engage in further discussion with an obvious troll account.

sep_field 6y ago
that is in terms of the pandemic and masks. this is a different discussion with broader goals. Calling me a troll is a personal attack designed to discredit me. I have very different ideas and motivations than you do, but I am a true believer, not a troll.
- burnthrow 6y ago
  Don't play coy, the sole goal of your "discussion" and account is to provoke and upset people.
  - sep_field 6y ago
    The purpose of my discussion is to educate and inspire a global Ecosocialist revolution. The purpose of my account in general is to have interesting discussions. I have some pretty extremist views and I'm quite vocal about them in some discussions, that doesn't make me a troll. Now, do you have anything constructive to say or are you just going to continue personal attacks?
    - Igelau 6y ago
      I think you're being called a troll because you're proposing incarceration as a solution, and that's a fundamentally antiscientific position. Inconsistency + agression usually passes the duck test for a troll.
      - sep_field 6y ago