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Climate change deniers are not the problem. The problem are people who admit that climate change exists and is a serious problem but then do nothing substantial
by adrianN 6y ago
Climate change deniers are not the problem. The problem are people who admit that climate change exists and is a serious problem but then do nothing substantial about it. Very few of our politicians are climate change deniers, but all of them fail to implement appropriate measures to reduce CO2 emissions quickly enough.
- sep_field 6y agoThey should be imprisoned as well. The Earth does not belong to us, rather we belong to the Earth. The Earth is more important than we are, we should put the Earth's needs ahead of our own needs. We must stand up for the rights of the Earth, or else human rights will be impossible to maintain. Anyone sacrificing the Earth for profit is committing genocide as well as ecocide.
- adrianN 6y agoFor that you need support from a large majority of the general populace, who unfortunately are just fine with the status quo (or the politicians would need to act differently to get reelected).
- sep_field 6y agoThe majority of the world's populace is scared of climate change. There's more than enough of us to eliminate the rich if we work together. Countries are an outmoded and unsustainable concept that only serve to artificially empower the rich. Global Ecosocialism is the only way to avert climate catastrophe. The way to eliminate the rich is for us to band together and strip them of their assets, then they will no longer be rich.
- cnity 6y agoIf anything will save us it will be technology, not going around trying to institute a global genocide campaign against the rich.
- sep_field 6y agoI updated my comment to clarify that eliminating the rich does not mean killing them. We must become a planet of equals, working together to be sustainable. Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Technology will not save us, only drastically reducing our consumption and pollution will.
- slibhb 6y ago> Anyone working against sustainability should be thrown in prison. Anyone working against the state, against the current of history, has forfeit his right to exist. This is justified by the beacon on the hill, which is communism ("a planet of equals"). Sounds familiar. On some level I admire you because you're really just extending commonly held ideas to their logical conclusion. That's something most people don't have the guts to do. But the lesson here is that we absolutely cannot extend these "big ideas" as you've done. We have to exist in an indeterminate state and avoid totalizing our worldviews. In other words, you should find a way to advocate for measures to deal with climate change without sounding like a psychopath.
- sep_field 6y agoa psychopath would be calling for executions of these people, not simply stripping their assets and throwing them in prison. We only have about 10-15 years until complete climate collapse. The time for advocating gentle measures was 50 years ago. Which was done, and ignored by the ruling classes. Now we only have time for drastic measures: An end to countries, and end to capitalism. Global Ecosocialist cooperation of the working classes, taking the means of production by force and ensuring only sustainable processes are continued.
- slibhb 6y agoThere is no evidence that socialism (the variety that actually exists in the real world and not in your head) is any more ecologically friendly than capitalism. I think it's deeply sad that you haven't learned the lessons of the 20th century. "Gentle measures" are the only way to make progress, we can't sever our connection to the past, drastic measures of the kind you're proposing have always resulted in the vivisection of actual human communities based on a quasi-religious understanding of what's going to happen in the future.
- burnthrow 6y agoThis user's views on criminal justice change like the weather. > sep_field 4 hours ago [–] > Fines and jail time would be a start at correcting policy. Especially jail time for cops who refuse to wear masks. > sep_field 2 hours ago [–] > yeah I think jail is best reserved for cops and politicians. Perhaps it's best to not engage in further discussion with an obvious troll account.
- sep_field 6y agothat is in terms of the pandemic and masks. this is a different discussion with broader goals. Calling me a troll is a personal attack designed to discredit me. I have very different ideas and motivations than you do, but I am a true believer, not a troll.
- burnthrow 6y agoDon't play coy, the sole goal of your "discussion" and account is to provoke and upset people.
- sep_field 6y agoThe purpose of my discussion is to educate and inspire a global Ecosocialist revolution. The purpose of my account in general is to have interesting discussions. I have some pretty extremist views and I'm quite vocal about them in some discussions, that doesn't make me a troll. Now, do you have anything constructive to say or are you just going to continue personal attacks?
- bildung 6y ago> Very few of our politicians are climate change deniers No idea whether 10 years made much of a difference, but in 2011 it was "more than half of the Republicans in the House and three-quarters of Republican senators" said "that the threat of global warming, as a man-made and highly threatening phenomenon, is at best an exaggeration and at worst an utter "hoax"" https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/magazine/27FOB-WWLN-t.html https://www.nytimes.com/2011/02/27/magazine/27FOB-WWLN-t.htm...
- rayiner 6y agoIn another 80 years, climate change might reduce GDP per capita by 7.22% if action isn’t taken: https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/climate-change-to-slow-global-economic-growth-new-study-finds.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/08/20/climate-change-to-slow-globa.... Sounds like people are taking it appropriately seriously.
- smaddox 6y agoDon't trust neoclassical economists to understand macroeconomics, let alone climate science: https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14747731.2020.1807856 https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/14747731.2020.18...
- rayiner 6y agoEconomists aren’t doing climate science, they’re relying on IPCC models of what would happen. What you’re saying is “don’t trust economics experts to translate climate scientists’ projections into economic impact.” That’s silly.
- sep_field 6y agoIPCC models are heavily biased towards downplaying the catastrophic changes already in progress, so as not to upset the status quo. They have repeatedly been shown to underpredict the actual changes occurring, and don't take into account the multiple overlapping positive feedback systems that are in play. In reality, we only have about 10-15 years before complete ecological collapse. Your neoliberal Chicago-school economists are doing nothing but providing a smokescreen so that the rich can continue to rape the planet for a few more years while the mass of humanity dies off along with the majority of other life. Question is, whats in it for you to repeat the lies of the ruling classes?
- rayiner 6y ago> In reality, we only have about 10-15 years before complete ecological collapse. "In reality, climate change is a pre-text for Marxist takeover of the economy.... Question is, what's in it for you to repeat the lies of communist revolutionaries?" If we just ignore the scientific consensus, we can play this game all day.
- linuxftw 6y agoClimate change exists. It has always existed. Most of the northern hemisphere used to be covered with ice. Prior to that, it wasn't covered with ice. Is it a serious problem? No. Is the Earth getting warmer because of human activity? Probably not. Things that are a serious problem: Pollution, pesticides, increasing water scarcity due to population growth in (already) arid areas, loss of biodiversity due to a number of things, the corporate take over of government and society, over criminalization of society with unjust laws, endless wars where western nations kill the inhabitants of non-western nations. There's much to be concerned about. Climate change is last on the list.
- sep_field 6y agoWillful blindness packaged as cleverness won't save you. Climate models show that we only have about 10-15 more years before complete climate collapse. Welcome to the anthropocene.
- derg 6y ago> Climate models show that we only have about 10-15 more years before complete climate collapse. and here i am, waking up every day putting on my stupid pants and my stupid hoodie and meandering to my stupid laptop to make stupid little websites. like normally i'm just going with the flow with this knowledge that the future is gonna suck but somedays like today it hits harder than it usually does when i see it written out this way
- jellicle 6y ago> Climate change deniers are not the problem. The problem are people who admit that climate change exists and is a serious problem but then do nothing substantial about it. But those are climate change deniers. The stages of denial are denying that the problem exists, admitting it exists but denying we're responsible, admitting we're responsible but denying anything need be done, admitting something need be done but saying it's too late.... and so on. All of these different excuses are put forth by the same people on different days of the week and as the needs of the current argument demand. We saw the same thing with cigarette makers, leaded gasoline makers, or any other public health issue. It's just a blizzard of justifications for why humans shouldn't do anything about the Earth getting 5-6-7-8 degrees C warmer so that my transnational corporation can keep making money now. They're all climate change deniers.