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I find that comment insightful, as religion may have a part of "blame" for people who disagree with the practice. However, other non religious system (communis

by 1996 6y ago

I find that comment insightful, as religion may have a part of "blame" for people who disagree with the practice. However, other non religious system (communist USSR, post-revolution France) did or still do the same: they did run experiments on convicts or war prisoners. We all benefit from the science gained. The big question is whether the greater good as defined by a religion or non religious belief-system can offset the perceived negatives - but there are clearly positive too: the prisoners mentioned in the article were condemned to death already. By volunteering, one survived: > As a reward for his services, the prisoner had his death sentence commuted to life as a galley slave Down the thread, people mention China. Personally, I trust China CCP and I believe it is trying to inflict as little hurt as possible while maximizing the greater good for the whole society. It is sad the idea of a greater good now looks quaint.

wizzwizz4 6y ago
When people start justifying genocides with “the greater good”, they've ventured into children's book evil territory. In what real-world situation is genocide ever a good thing? They might even be doing good on net – but there's a whole lot of evil they could just cut out. It doesn't count as “for the greater good” if the evil doesn't cause or allow the good, which it blatantly doesn't; if anything, it prevents it.
- WanderPanda 6y ago
  When people start justifying anything with “the greater good”, they've ventured into children's book evil territory
  - wizzwizz4 6y ago
    True. If your utilitarian calculus actually works out, you don't have to constantly tell people that.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LTdslZSMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LTdslZSMw
cbozeman 6y ago
> It is sad the idea of a greater good now looks quaint. It doesn't look quaint now and it didn't look quaint 2,000 years ago when Romans believed that going to war with anyone and everyone around them in order to unify everyone under Rome's banner was for "the greater good". Justifying the stripping away of rights of individuals for society never results in a "greater good", and the reason that it won't, and not only that - can't, is because as soon as you justify stripping away an individual's rights, then you start looking at the stripping away of a group's rights, and before long you end up with an increasingly larger Venn diagram with an overlap of "groups that hinder society" and "extermination for the greater good". No thank you. Keep your goddamned "greater good". We've tried it enough. "But that wasn't real <Communism / Socialism / Marxism / Right-wing Authoritarianism / Benevolent Dictatorship / etc.>!" has been and always will be the mantra, because there's always someone dumb enough to think they're smart enough to build the "perfect" society. And they're all wrong.
- juanani 6y ago
  Don't strip away individual rights, unless they are trying to assemble a communistic state, then feel free to roll over them with your freedom tanks. What have 'we tried enough' of other than destroy nations as soon as someone wants to socialize resources that our greedy businessmen could've exploited? Keep your goddamned 'Freedom to be ignorant' to yourself, the world does not need this export. Pathetic.
  - cbozeman 6y ago
    > a communistic state Yeah that worked out well for the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик! It managed to give the world the worst nuclear disaster ever seen! And also managed to keep an entire nation with vast resources so fucking poor that their supermarkets - lol, who am I kidding? There were no supermarkets in Soviet Russia. Hell, there were barely even markets... but they basically looked like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE Keep your goddamned "Ridiculous idealism that will never work because it defies human nature" to yourself. You will never, and I mean ever have a successful communist state. There's never been a single one, and never will be.
koheripbal 6y ago
> "I'm not surprised that people of <certain religion> support murder" How on Earth is that "insightful". Is that really an honest argument? IMHO, the comment deserved to be removed more because it was thoughtless and dumb - even though I flagged it for being biggoted.
KDJohnBrown 6y ago
Did the article say these condemned men were volunteers? Also, given this was done by a pope, what were their crimes? Apostasy? Blasphemy? Homosexuality?
Nasrudith 6y ago
The various incarnations of communism are basically just warmed over apocalyptic theology. This one statement is great at pissing off both groups but it is true. Belief in the "inevitability" of a utopia of the righteous, subordination of the individual to the "righteous leaders"? It is an idea of the greater good alright - one meant to excuse every atrocity. That is what most people want out of religion - an easy way to be always right.

by 1996 6y ago

wizzwizz4 6y ago

When people start justifying genocides with “the greater good”, they've ventured into children's book evil territory. In what real-world situation is genocide ever a good thing? They might even be doing good on net – but there's a whole lot of evil they could just cut out. It doesn't count as “for the greater good” if the evil doesn't cause or allow the good, which it blatantly doesn't; if anything, it prevents it.

WanderPanda 6y ago
When people start justifying anything with “the greater good”, they've ventured into children's book evil territory
- wizzwizz4 6y ago
  True. If your utilitarian calculus actually works out, you don't have to constantly tell people that.
cbozeman 6y ago
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LTdslZSMw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2LTdslZSMw

cbozeman 6y ago

> It is sad the idea of a greater good now looks quaint. It doesn't look quaint now and it didn't look quaint 2,000 years ago when Romans believed that going to war with anyone and everyone around them in order to unify everyone under Rome's banner was for "the greater good". Justifying the stripping away of rights of individuals for society never results in a "greater good", and the reason that it won't, and not only that - can't, is because as soon as you justify stripping away an individual's rights, then you start looking at the stripping away of a group's rights, and before long you end up with an increasingly larger Venn diagram with an overlap of "groups that hinder society" and "extermination for the greater good". No thank you. Keep your goddamned "greater good". We've tried it enough. "But that wasn't real <Communism / Socialism / Marxism / Right-wing Authoritarianism / Benevolent Dictatorship / etc.>!" has been and always will be the mantra, because there's always someone dumb enough to think they're smart enough to build the "perfect" society. And they're all wrong.

juanani 6y ago
Don't strip away individual rights, unless they are trying to assemble a communistic state, then feel free to roll over them with your freedom tanks. What have 'we tried enough' of other than destroy nations as soon as someone wants to socialize resources that our greedy businessmen could've exploited? Keep your goddamned 'Freedom to be ignorant' to yourself, the world does not need this export. Pathetic.
- cbozeman 6y ago
  > a communistic state Yeah that worked out well for the Союз Советских Социалистических Республик! It managed to give the world the worst nuclear disaster ever seen! And also managed to keep an entire nation with vast resources so fucking poor that their supermarkets - lol, who am I kidding? There were no supermarkets in Soviet Russia. Hell, there were barely even markets... but they basically looked like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWTGsUyv8IE Keep your goddamned "Ridiculous idealism that will never work because it defies human nature" to yourself. You will never, and I mean ever have a successful communist state. There's never been a single one, and never will be.

koheripbal 6y ago

> "I'm not surprised that people of <certain religion> support murder" How on Earth is that "insightful". Is that really an honest argument? IMHO, the comment deserved to be removed more because it was thoughtless and dumb - even though I flagged it for being biggoted.

KDJohnBrown 6y ago

Did the article say these condemned men were volunteers? Also, given this was done by a pope, what were their crimes? Apostasy? Blasphemy? Homosexuality?

Nasrudith 6y ago

The various incarnations of communism are basically just warmed over apocalyptic theology. This one statement is great at pissing off both groups but it is true. Belief in the "inevitability" of a utopia of the righteous, subordination of the individual to the "righteous leaders"? It is an idea of the greater good alright - one meant to excuse every atrocity. That is what most people want out of religion - an easy way to be always right.